MULTI Unreal Engine 5 officially released; new tech test video from The Coalition

[Necrokiller]

Which open world Unreal Engine game are we talking about?

Gears 5 does not have any shader compilation stutters. Coalition rep

 

[Necrokiller]

This is not a PC hardware problem.

Correct. And pre-compiled shader cache is something Steam Deck does as well and has been a feature on Desktop client for Open-GL and Vulkan based applications for like 6 years now. Fixed hardware is not a solution. Tons of games and game engines out there don't exhibit this and have actually solved the issue.

 

[CerebralTiger]

Which open world Unreal Engine game are we talking about?

Gears 5 (note: not an open world game)

pre-compiled shader cache is something Steam Deck (note: a fixed piece of hardware) does as well.

Fixed hardware is not a solution.

Tons of games and game engines out there don't exhibit this and have actually solved the issue.

"Tons of game engines" lmaooooo. Hain kitnay AAA game engines iss waqt market mein (Red Engine tou gia )? Unreal Engine is by far the most popular.

 

[Necrokiller]

I'm not sure what "open world" nature of games has to do with shader compilation when linear games can exhibit it too, but Gears 5 does qualify as a "complex" game (and does have open areas as well) which was the original stipulation laid out by CerebralTiger. Classic goal post shifting.

Problem: fix shader compilation on varied hardware
CerebralTiger: Use fixed hardware.

"Tons of game engines" lmaooooo. Hain kitnay AAA game engines iss waqt market mein (Red Engine tou gia )? Unreal Engine is by far the most popular.

Pretty much every Ubisoft studio has its own proprietary engine and none of them have shader compilation stutters

 

[CerebralTiger]

Open world games tend to have a larger variety of assets, which means more shaders and more dependencies, especially if the shaders were created using a visual graph. Moreover, if the player is able make changes to said assets (Fortnite?), each shader would likely have many permutations. Pre-compiling each and every one for every PC config out there is simply not possible. And them needing to be re-compiled after every title update or driver update only makes matters worse.

The only logial solution is to pre-cache primary shaders and let async compilation handle the rest, which is what UE5.2 is doing.

Stuttering (in open world games especially) can also happen due to streaming issues, and some of Ubisoft's games tend to have those. Far Cry's Dunia engine comes to mind.

 

[Necrokiller]

Open world games tend to have a larger variety of assets, which means more shaders and more dependencies, especially if the shaders were created using a visual graph. Moreover, if the player is able make changes to said assets (Fortnite?), each shader would likely have many permutations. Pre-compiling each and every one for every PC config out there is simply not possible. And them needing to be re-compiled after every title update or driver update only makes matters worse.

Days Gone is an open world game on Unreal Engine 4 and does not have any shader stutters

Ubisoft open world games don't have shader stutters either. The issue is, by and large, limited to UE4. Which has an extremely limited number of open world games to begin with. And almost all of them have underlying engine issues which translate to consoles as well.

Stuttering (in open world games especially) can also happen due to streaming issues, and some of Ubisoft's games tend to have those. Far Cry's Dunia engine comes to mind.

Which is an engine issue and occurs on consoles as well.

 

[CerebralTiger]

Which has an extremely limited number of open world games to begin with.

Incorrect. Besides Days Gone, there are plenty of open world UE4 games:

- Gotham Knights
- Ghostwire Tokyo
- Dragon Quest XI
- Atomic Heart
- State of Decay 2
- Sea of Thieves
- Redfall
- The Sinking City
- Ark
- Fortnite (originally UE4)
- PUBG
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt
- Rumbleverse
- Solar Ash

There are probably more.

And almost all of them have underlying engine issues which translate to consoles as well.

Most of the games I listed above either don't have issues on consoles or their issues are less severe than on PC.

Which is an engine issue and occurs on consoles as well.

Same issue with Watch Dogs Legion, which means Ubisoft games aren't stutter-free either, regardless of the cause of stuttering.

It's not always an engine issue, though. Games like Elden Ring (modified Phyre engine), Dying Light 2 (C-engine) exhibit streaming stutters on PC, but not on current-gen consoles. If the issue could've been tackled via engine-related streaming optimizations alone, there wouldn't have been the need for faster access to storage and GPU decompression.

UE5's adoption rate soars as more and more studios ditch their propriety engines in favor of it. If Fortnite is anything to go by, things aren't looking bright for PC gaming

 

[Necrokiller]

Incorrect. Besides Days Gone, there are plenty of open world UE4 games:

- Gotham Knights
- Ghostwire Tokyo
- Dragon Quest XI
- Atomic Heart
- State of Decay 2
- Sea of Thieves
- Redfall
- The Sinking City
- Ark
- Fortnite (originally UE4)
- PUBG
- Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodhunt
- Rumbleverse
- Solar Ash

LMAOOO at Ghostwire Tokyo. Even Gears 5 is more of an open world game compared to that

I mean, now list all the linear games on it. My statement is still valid. It's not a popular choice for open world games.

And Arkham Knight is highly modified UE 3.5, not UE4. None of their custom tools, or any other studios', benefits anyone else using the engine. Maybe if Epic had partnered with them but we all know they chose the best in the business

Most of the games I listed above either don't have issues on consoles or their issues are less severe than on PC.

lol @ most. Traversal stutter is universal to the engine regardless of the platform.

Lmao @ less severe. That's a matter of individual perception

Same issue with Watch Dogs Legion, which means Ubisoft games aren't stutter-free either, regardless of the cause of stuttering.

Neither is it limited to PC.

If Fortnite is anything to go by

It isn't. Remnant 2 is terrible on consoles

 

[CerebralTiger]

LMAOOO at Ghostwire Tokyo. Even Gears 5 is more of an open world game compared to that

Comparing that one open section of Gears 5, which you can't even return to, to an actual open world game. Is this a joke? No wait, it's just Necrokiller

I mean, now list all the linear games on it. My statement is still valid.

The statement said nothing about the ratio of linear vs open world UE4 games, and is, therefore, invalid. Also, what's the most popular choice of engine for open world games? Please share.

And Arkham Knight is highly modified UE 3.5, not UE4.

Where did I list Arkham Knight? Is this another joke? No wait, it's just Necrokiller

lol @ most. Traversal stutter is universal to the engine regardless of the platform.

No it isn't. There's no traversal stutter in Atomic Heart, SIFU, Fortnite, and more UE4 games on console, whereas there is on PC.

Lmao @ less severe. That's a matter of individual perception

Numbers aren't based on perception.

It isn't. Remnant 2 is terrible on consoles

Using a game made by whoever vs one developed by the engine makers

 

[Necrokiller]

Comparing that one hub section of Gears 5, which you can't even return to, to an actual open world game. Is this a joke? No wait, it's just Necrokiller

I said it makes a better case than Gears 5. Have you even played Ghostwire Tokyo ? Oh no wait, it's just CerebralTiger pretending to have played something so he can argue about it online

The statement said nothing about the ratio of linear vs open world UE4 games, and is, therefore, invalid. Also, it isn't the mo, by far, the most popular choice

Most games on UE4 are linear and not open world. You shifted the goal post as always

Where did I list Arkham Knight? Is this another joke? No wait, it's just Necrokiller

Right. Gotham Knight. Alongwith Redfall and Ghostwire Tokyo, all technical mess. Common denominator? UE4 open world game

No it isn't. There's no traversal stutter in Atomic Heart, SIFU, Fortnite, and more UE4 games on console, whereas there is on PC.

Wrong. Sifu and Fortnite both have stuttering issue on PS4/Pro/XB1/X1X.

Numbers aren't based on perception.

And every individual's perception will be different regardless of the numbers. You can measure 26.5C and 26.7C. You can also measure 54fps vs 55fps. How many people will be able to perceive the difference?

Using a game made by whoever vs one developed by the engine makers

How is that even relevant? Weren't you celebrating the engine's adoption? Perhaps file a petition for Epic to re-release Remnant 2 because you're gonna be getting alot of UE5 games by "whoevers"

 

[CerebralTiger]

I said it makes a better case than Gears 5.

It doesn't. It's not an open world game.

IMost games on UE4 are linear and not open world. You shifted the goal post as always

Nah the goal post shifting happened here:

The issue is, by and large, limited to UE4. Which has an extremely limited number of open world games to begin with.

[UE4] has an extremely limited number of open world games to begin with, as per Necrokiller. No mention of in comparison to linear games on the engine.

It's not a popular choice for open world games.

Please enlighten me and let me know which is the most popular engine for open world games.

Right. Gotham Knight. Alongwith Redfall and Ghostwire Tokyo, all technical mess.

Ghostwire doesn't have shader compilation or streaming stutters on PS5/Series X.

Wrong. Sifu and Fortnite both have stuttering issue on PS4/Pro/XB1/X1X.

Joke post? I'm obviously not talking about last gen consoles, just like I'm not talking about outdated PC hardware being able to run these games well. I literally wouldn't have said this in my previous post if I were including last-gen consoles lol

If the issue could've been tackled via engine-related streaming optimizations alone, there wouldn't have been the need for faster access to storage and GPU decompression.

And every individual's perception will be different regardless of the numbers.

Indiviiiidual perception lmao. Argument has fallen so flat that it has come down to this

I don't care about individual perception. I choose the best version based on hard facts

[QUOTE="Necrokiller, post: 3065993, member: 11352"because you're gonna be getting alot of UE5 games by "whoevers" [/QUOTE]

There are also many major AAA developers alongside those whoevers, so it's all good.

 

[Necrokiller]

It doesn't. It's not an open world game.

It does. Ghostwire Tokyo also happens to be filled with loading screens.

Nah the goal post shifting happened here:

This is where it happened, initiated by you:

And yet, there are tons of complex games on game engines that do not have this issue at all, inclooooding Unreal Engine. Huh, fancy that.

Which open world Unreal Engine game are we talking about?

There was no mention of open world games either in your post I commented on, or on my post.

Ghostwire doesn't have shader compilation or streaming stutters on PS5/Series X.

Its a technical mess still, which stutters as well as poor responsive in controls which isn't present on PC with a mouse+kb.

Joke post? I'm obviously not talking about last gen consoles

Classic goal post shifting. You mentioned consoles and those games are cross-gen.

I don't care about individual perception.

We don't care about what is perceptible to you, esp when you're okay with enjoying shit like Jedi Survivor, ToTK and Bayonetta 3 (to name a few)

There will also many major AAA developers alongside those whoevers, so it's all good.

But its not "all" good, as proved by Remnant 2.

 

[CerebralTiger]

Ghostwire Tokyo also happens to be filled with loading screens.

Never said anything about open world games having or not having loading screens. Making stories out of thin air is a classic Necrokiller pastime.

There was no mention of open world games either in your post I commented on, or on my post.

the dependencies between them can be significant in large-scale games.

I referred to open world games as large-scale games in that post.

Classic goal post shifting. You mentioned consoles and those games are cross-gen.

Note: whenever I use the term "console", I refer to current-gen consoles. It's not at all goal post shifting when in my previous post, I mentioned the need for faster access to storage and GPU decompression.

We don't care about what is perceptible to you

No one cares what you can or can't perceive either. Hard numbers matter. Period.

But its not "all" good, as proved by Remnant 2.

Tell me when Remnant 2 is actually a big enough deal for it to be a widespread concern lol

 

[Necrokiller]

Never said anything about open world games having or not having loading screens.

That's why I'm saying Gears 5 makes a better case. You would know if you have played Ghostwire Tokyo. Maybe refrain from commenting on it until then?

I referred to open world games as large-scale games in that post.

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO so why did the term switch when you replied to me?

So now Gears 5 is not a large scale game.

Classic.....goal post.....shifting. Hoooly yikes

Note: whenever I use the term "console"

LOL, try again next time. Those games are all last-gen first.

No one cares what you can or can't perceive either. Hard numbers matter. Period.

Numbers don't always tell us what is perceptible, only what is measurable.

Tell me when Remnant 2 is actually a big enough deal for it to be a widespread concern lol

So now the goal post is shifting to only UE5 games made by "AAA developers" where a game is a "big enough deal". Predictable

 

[CerebralTiger]

That's why I'm saying Gears 5 makes a better case. You would know if you have played Ghostwire Tokyo. Maybe refrain from commenting on it until then?

When you can prove that you've played and finished all previous Armored Core games, I'll gladly prove I played Ghostwire Tokyo. Until then, maybe refrain from thinking I played every single thing on a PlayStation console

LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO so why did the term switch when you replied to me?

It's interchangeable for me. I don't consider a linear game to be large-scale, as, by design, you can't return to previous areas. They can be wide-linear or have a level portrayed as a mini-open world, but that doesn't come off as large-scale to me.

LOL, try again next time. Those games are all last-gen first.

Don't try so hard. It doesn't matter what their primary target platform is, they run best on a current-gen console. Better than PC as well.

Numbers don't always tell us what is perceptible, only what is measurable.

Perception is subjective, numbers are objective. There is no room for subjectivity in this case

So now the goal post is shifting to only UE5 games made by "AAA developers" where a game is a "big enough deal". Predictable

Yes? I mean, the studio isn't even known for its technical capabilities. The engine can only go so far

 

[Necrokiller]

When you can prove that you've played and finished all previous Armored Core games, I'll gladly prove I played Ghostwire Tokyo. Until then, maybe refrain from thinking I played every single thing on a PlayStation console

But I'm literally asking if you've played it and you cannot seem to answer

Also, LMAO at bringing a totally unrelated game in the discussion.

And LMAO @ bringing in an issue affecting an insignificant number of users for a totally unrelated game. Classic Necrokiller

Don't try so hard. It doesn't matter what their primary target platform is, they run best on a current-gen console.

The argument was whether Unreal Engine 4 games stutter on consoles, which I proved they do. Not my fault you have to change your goal posts, as always

Perception is subjective, numbers are objective. There is no room for subjectivity in this discussion

So it's settled. These are all stutters. I'd take Rich's analysis based on numbers.

Yes? I mean, the studio isn't even known for its technical capabilities. The engine can only go so far

Where was this stipulation when you curated a list of UE4 "large scale" games? LMAOOO at the double standards here

 

[CerebralTiger]

The argument was whether Unreal Engine 4 games stutter on consoles, which I proved they do. Not my fault you have to change your goal posts, as always

Cool, now comes the question: do those mentioned games stutter on current-gen consoles?

Where was this stipulation when you curated a list of UE4 "large scale" games? LMAOOO at the double standards here

Lack of technical expertise can certainly be considered in the case of that list, but the fact remains that not even Epic Games has been able to solve the issue in its own game on PC

 

[Necrokiller]

Cool, now comes the question: do those mentioned games stutter on current-gen consoles?

the fact remains that not even Epic Games has been able to solve the issue in its own game on PC

On that note, they can't solve traversal stutter on their own engine on current gen consoles either

 

[CerebralTiger]

On that note, they can't solve traversal stutter on their own engine on current gen consoles either

I know about this, and it has since been fixed. How are the PC fixes coming along?

 

[Necrokiller]

I know about this, and it has since been fixed.

Gonna need the receipts for that