CA -|- Chartered Accountants Thread

[Hassan Aftab]

CFA = Certified Financial Analyst???

Yep,that's right.

Just reviewed this and realized how wrong I was. :/

 

[gttx]

I have three CFAs working with me in my office. Two are getting around 60k and one is getting around 110k

i am above all three and no CFA. Just plain MBA Finance

CFA is highly overrated. Please dont do it if you are going to be working in a non investment role. Only suits people of following areas:

- Investment Banking (khi only)
- Portfolio Management (khi only)
- Wealth management (still young in Pakistan)
- Treasury (derivatives etc.) again jobs in Khi only

If you are from above areas then please do it. Otherwise dont waste time. An MBA finance is just good enough for your general banking jobs including corporate banking.

There arent my jobs in Pakistan that properly utilize a CFA qualification. Unless you are going to apply it you will easily forget all that you learned within a year.

 

[Hassan Aftab]

I have three CFAs working with me in my office. Two are getting around 60k and one is getting around 110k

i am above all three and no CFA. Just plain MBA Finance

CFA is highly overrated. Please dont do it if you are going to be working in a non investment role. Only suits people of following areas:

- Investment Banking (khi only)
- Portfolio Management (khi only)
- Wealth management (still young in Pakistan)
- Treasury (derivatives etc.) again jobs in Khi only

If you are from above areas then please do it. Otherwise dont waste time. An MBA finance is just good enough for your general banking jobs including corporate banking.

There arent my jobs in Pakistan that properly utilize a CFA qualification. Unless you are going to apply it you will easily forget all that you learned within a year.

My Goodness, that is some news to me!

I am engaged in my ACCA studies as of now, and was thinking of pursuing CIA (Certified Internal Auditing) upon completion of this and then eventually CFA under the knowledge that I must diversify my knowledge of business/accounting/finance studies in order to appeal to employers (as I have been told is crucial considering the rate of unemployment these days).

I did consider MBA/MSc Finance against CFA but I drew the conclusion that a Masters degree might just not be enough knowledge based and practical as compared to a CFA.

Middle East is where I eventually aim to be, but of course I will be practising here well before leaving for the Middle East (If and when I do).

Can you comment on this, please.
Also, let me know if you think there are better combination of qualification/s alongside my ACCA.

PS: I am curious, howcome you are 'above' all three of those CFA graduates with a plain MBA Finance? Would you mind dollying out a few secrets?

 

[qazishehryar]

I am inclining more towards CPA from ICPAP... Because if i do CPA from ICPAP, i will get full exemption + membership (ofcourse with fee) of:

1. CPA (certified public accountant) body of UK
2. CFA (certified forensic accountants) body of UK
3. FC (financial consultant) body of Canada
4. ACCEA (Association of Certified Corporate Executive Accountants) of USA
5. Institute of Accounting Technicians (IAT) Chartered in USA and Canada
6. Higher National Diploma in Accounting and Finance from Edexcel, UK upon completion of CPA.
7. Chartered Institute of Corporate Treasurers USA.
8. Chartered Institute of Professional Financial Managers USA.
9. Higher Diploma in Accounting from BIMS, UK upon completion of CPA.

source: Global Affiliations

I know a Financial Controller in Islamabad having salary of 500k who has done CPA from ICPAP.

I have interest in pure accounting and finance (including audit and taxation etc). So what do you guys suggest??? Should i go where my heart flows (i.e. CPA from ICPAP)???? I am currently working as Finance Executive with 30k salary.

 

[alamode]

CFA = Certified Financial Analyst???

"Chartered" Financial Analyst..

Come on, You can do a simple google search for that !!

 

[gttx]

My Goodness, that is some news to me!

I am engaged in my ACCA studies as of now, and was thinking of pursuing CIA (Certified Internal Auditing) upon completion of this and then eventually CFA under the knowledge that I must diversify my knowledge of business/accounting/finance studies in order to appeal to employers (as I have been told is crucial considering the rate of unemployment these days).

I did consider MBA/MSc Finance against CFA but I drew the conclusion that a Masters degree might just not be enough knowledge based and practical as compared to a CFA.

Middle East is where I eventually aim to be, but of course I will be practising here well before leaving for the Middle East (If and when I do).

Can you comment on this, please.
Also, let me know if you think there are better combination of qualification/s alongside my ACCA.

PS: I am curious, howcome you are 'above' all three of those CFA graduates with a plain MBA Finance? Would you mind dollying out a few secrets?

haha. My Secret ?? Experience 6+ others have 4 yrs

I would suggest you do CFA if Middle East is your market. But try and gain experience on side of portfolio and investment management or investment banking. Thats where you will learn to apply all those CFA skills.

ACCA + CFA is a good combination.

 

[qazishehryar]

what about CPA + MBA ???? ..... Most of the CPAs of ICPAP are placed in UAE and middle east......

 

[alamode]

I have three CFAs working with me in my office. Two are getting around 60k and one is getting around 110k

i am above all three and no CFA. Just plain MBA Finance

CFA is highly overrated. Please dont do it if you are going to be working in a non investment role. Only suits people of following areas:

- Investment Banking (khi only)
- Portfolio Management (khi only)
- Wealth management (still young in Pakistan)
- Treasury (derivatives etc.) again jobs in Khi only

If you are from above areas then please do it. Otherwise dont waste time. An MBA finance is just good enough for your general banking jobs including corporate banking.

There arent my jobs in Pakistan that properly utilize a CFA qualification. Unless you are going to apply it you will easily forget all that you learned within a year.

Yup he's right. There arent many jobs in Pakistan which require CFA. "Logon kay pass paisa tou hai nai, Investment kaisay karaingay?"

Are the people working under you, working in the capacity of CFA (as in making investment decisions or managing portfolios) ? Or are they working in any other capacity? Are they fully qualified?

My Goodness, that is some news to me!

I am engaged in my ACCA studies as of now, and was thinking of pursuing CIA (Certified Internal Auditing) upon completion of this and then eventually CFA under the knowledge that I must diversify my knowledge of business/accounting/finance studies in order to appeal to employers (as I have been told is crucial considering the rate of unemployment these days).

I did consider MBA/MSc Finance against CFA but I drew the conclusion that a Masters degree might just not be enough knowledge based and practical as compared to a CFA.

Middle East is where I eventually aim to be, but of course I will be practising here well before leaving for the Middle East (If and when I do).

Can you comment on this, please.
Also, let me know if you think there are better combination of qualification/s alongside my ACCA.

PS: I am curious, howcome you are 'above' all three of those CFA graduates with a plain MBA Finance? Would you mind dollying out a few secrets?

Diversification is only to enable you to be eligible for different jobs. If an employer needs an accountant, He wouldn't be concerned if you have a CFA or CIA or CISA, he would only be concerned with your ACCA/CA whereas if someone is hiring an investment professional he would be more concerned with your CFA rather then ACCA/CA/CIA. Sometimes if you go to an employer and show him you've got these list of qualifications : ACCA, CA, CIMA, CISA, CIA, CFA etc etc sometimes they think that you dont have a proper vision in your career and it also turns out as a disadvantage sometimes because doing so many qualifications shows clear lack of direction in one's career.

So only pursue qualifications you have an interest in and when sending a CV to an employer and you have many qualifications, dont bombard it with qualifications.. only show the qualifications relevant to that particular position that the employer is offering.

 

[qazishehryar]

Now thats right.... I've also worked as Admin and HR officer and our policy there was to seek people with relevant qualification for the announced post with relevant experience... all the extra qualification (apart from IT Qualifications as IT was a main part in HR Scoring Sheet) was usually considered garbage

 

[gttx]

Yup he's right. There arent many jobs in Pakistan which require CFA. "Logon kay pass paisa tou hai nai, Investment kaisay karaingay?"

Are the people working under you, working in the capacity of CFA (as in making investment decisions or managing portfolios) ? Or are they working in any other capacity? Are they fully qualified?




Diversification is only to enable you to be eligible for different jobs. If an employer needs an accountant, He wouldn't be concerned if you have a CFA or CIA or CISA, he would only be concerned with your ACCA/CA whereas if someone is hiring an investment professional he would be more concerned with your CFA rather then ACCA/CA/CIA. Sometimes if you go to an employer and show him you've got these list of qualifications : ACCA, CA, CIMA, CISA, CIA, CFA etc etc sometimes they think that you dont have a proper vision in your career and it also turns out as a disadvantage sometimes because doing so many qualifications shows clear lack of direction in one's career.

So only pursue qualifications you have an interest in and when sending a CV to an employer and you have many qualifications, dont bombard it with qualifications.. only show the qualifications relevant to that particular position that the employer is offering.

very well said. Too many qualifications will not get you anywhere. In fact concentrate on one thing and keep improving your qualifications in that.

Regarding the CFAs at my office. Yes all are qualified and cleared all levels etc. They are not working under me though I am senior to them. We are all handling corporate credit portfolios. However, no CFA usage here especially if you know basic finance stuff then you don't need it for this job.

Actually nowadays ppl do these qualifications just to get their foot in for an interview and perhaps land a job. Otherwise i don't see any other reason. I now see them frustrated as these guys thought that CFA will open some heavenly doors for them. It will open up but first they need to go and work in the area that's relevant to their qualification. Otherwise, its a waste.

By the way CFA is good if you are like an executive without finance background but working in a finance role. So a quick way to upgrade is to do a CFA. That way you can do it at your own pace n time and without going to UNI.

just my two cents ppl

 

[alamode]

very well said. Too many qualifications will not get you anywhere. In fact concentrate on one thing and keep improving your qualifications in that.

Regarding the CFAs at my office. Yes all are qualified and cleared all levels etc. They are not working under me though I am senior to them. We are all handling corporate credit portfolios. However, no CFA usage here especially if you know basic finance stuff then you don't need it for this job.

Actually nowadays ppl do these qualifications just to get their foot in for an interview and perhaps land a job. Otherwise i don't see any other reason. I now see them frustrated as these guys thought that CFA will open some heavenly doors for them. It will open up but first they need to go and work in the area that's relevant to their qualification. Otherwise, its a waste.

By the way CFA is good if you are like an executive without finance background but working in a finance role. So a quick way to upgrade is to do a CFA. That way you can do it at your own pace n time and without going to UNI.

just my two cents ppl

Rightly said !

I think the scope for CFA's outside Banks or NBFCs is very limited.. There are only a handful of companies which require CFA's for their treasury departments.

I myself am doing CFA, what do you think about its scope in organizations other then Banks or financial institutions? I dont intend on working in a bank after i qualify. Working in a bank would probably be the worst case scenario for me.

 

[Hassan Aftab]

haha. My Secret ?? Experience 6+ others have 4 yrs

I would suggest you do CFA if Middle East is your market. But try and gain experience on side of portfolio and investment management or investment banking. Thats where you will learn to apply all those CFA skills.

ACCA + CFA is a good combination.

Hmm, so I shouldn't pursue CIA right after my ACCA studies (I am getting a full exemption from 1 out of 4 parts on the basis of my ACCA)?

The idea is to diversify a little, not churn the CV with way too many qualifications. With ACCA+ CIA (for jobs in Internal Audit) + CFA (employment role in Finance/investment of course).

I am thinking of specializing in two separate capacities (Audit and Finance) just so that the element of diversification stays alive and I always have an option to fall back on.

CIA takes around 1 year to complete, so I am thinking it would complement my ACCA studies quite well before I pursue CFA of course.

Plus, while I would be studying CFA I may as well work in some audit-based firm (assuming I would complete CIA after the ACCA and THEN opt for CFA).

Does that make sense?

Does that make you like my combination of ACCA + CIA + CFA? (not trying to enforce the thought, just asking for an honest opinion. )

 

[gttx]

have a look at this chart and see what kind of employeers and what kind of job roles are doing CFA

CFA Institute - Congratulations to the newest CFA charterholders from around the world

if you think you can fit somewhere in these then go ahead and do it.

I am at Allied Bank which is top employer of CFA grads

 

[Hassan Aftab]

have a look at this chart and see what kind of employeers and what kind of job roles are doing CFA

CFA Institute - Congratulations to the newest CFA charterholders from around the world

if you think you can fit somewhere in these then go ahead and do it.

I am at Allied Bank which is top employer of CFA grads

Thanks so much for such a helpful comparison chart, gttx. Highly appreciated.

But could you also tell me if you now agree with me on my combination of ACCA + CIA + CFA in light of the last post I had typed?

Or is there something better that i should consider? If yes, what exactly?

---------- Post added at 03:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

Rightly said !

I think the scope for CFA's outside Banks or NBFCs is very limited.. There are only a handful of companies which require CFA's for their treasury departments.

I myself am doing CFA, what do you think about its scope in organizations other then Banks or financial institutions? I dont intend on working in a bank after i qualify. Working in a bank would probably be the worst case scenario for me.

I'd appreciate if you could also respond to the last three posts of mine, Sire.

 

[gttx]

if you can do it then by all means you should. it will give you diversity and combination of accounting and finance is pretty deadly in my opinion. However, bear in mind that you need to focus on what you like, if you like something you will do good in that automatically.

Audit especially after the global financial crisis (GFC) is a key focus area of all organizations. Its a good specialization, combine that with forensics accounting and i think it would be a good combo.

By the way if you intend to pursue career in accounting then i think nothing beats a CA. ACCA will not get you in a position of CFO of large multinational / corporates. << This is my view.

So see if you can do CA. Nothing beats that. CFA can be done while you are working and can be done at any point during career. Remember to gain practical experience. Its very essential and will help you direct your study in area of interest.

 

[Hassan Aftab]

if you can do it then by all means you should. it will give you diversity and combination of accounting and finance is pretty deadly in my opinion. However, bear in mind that you need to focus on what you like, if you like something you will do good in that automatically.

Audit especially after the global financial crisis (GFC) is a key focus area of all organizations. Its a good specialization, combine that with forensics accounting and i think it would be a good combo.

By the way if you intend to pursue career in accounting then i think nothing beats a CA. ACCA will not get you in a position of CFO of large multinational / corporates. << This is my view.

So see if you can do CA. Nothing beats that. CFA can be done while you are working and can be done at any point during career. Remember to gain practical experience. Its very essential and will help you direct your study in area of interest.

Hmm, never really heard of forensics accounting before but I just googled it and it seems to be a postulate of CA itself.

I am kinda confused..you are absolutely right about the point where you mention that you need to focus on what you like, if you like something you will do good in that automatically. And clearly, Internal Audit and Investment are two entirely separate fields of study.

However, others who have advised me about diversification (including my Financial Accounting tutor) do not shy away from advices like "pursue CIA and then CFA after your ACCA studies, CA/CIMA are almost entirely the same field of study as the ACCA so instead of doing the same thing over again its better to specialize and diversify".

This sort of advice does confuse me now that I think about it, I mean if I am to study Internal Audit when will I practice it in a job environment and if I do start with CFA eventually, when and where do I bring myself to actually PRACTICE investment/finance, considering the fact that investment and accounting don't exactly go hand in hand.

Seriously baffles me now. It seems like one out of the two qualifications are only going to do the job of sitting there on my CV and nothing more while I practice the only one qualification and actually benefit from it.

What other options do I have, maybe MBA/MSc Finance after ACCA and THEN CFA or is there a better Finance qualification/degree that may be useful and pertinent ofcourse before I pursue the CFA?

Conversely, what other options of a qualification (NOT degree) do I have in regards to Audit/Accounting that I may combine with an ACCA AND CIA if I choose, instead of Finance, audit only (something besides forensics accounting as I am unaware where in Pakistan I can get this from )

PS: Pardon my noob-ness, Mister.

 

[alamode]

Well you cant plan for 5-10 years in one go .. I'd suggest that for the time being make a 3 year plan which should include completing ACCA + BSc from OBU and landing a job based on your ACCA. Once you've done that, Then you can asses your further options depending on what sort of job you have and what attracts you more (you'll know what fields you want to go into after completing ACCA since you'd have studied all the core areas).

You should ask yourself, what do you want to be? Internal Auditor? External Auditor? Investment professional? Management Accountant? Tax Accountant? There are so many fields for you to choose from. I'd suggest you go through what these roles are and the work they perform.. only after that you can identify which qualifications you want to go for. Just doing qualifications for the sake of it wont help you get anywhere. Im pursuing the CA and CFA right now and aspire to do an MBA Finance later on after CA and CFA.. That would probably be it for me because im interested in Investments and Financial Reporting.. Ideal for me would be to work in an organization's treasury department, utilizing the CFA.

The ideal qualifications if you ask me for you would be these: ACCA or CA (either one of them but since you're in pakistan inorder to do CA (ICAEW) you'll have to do ACCA too). 2nd qualification CFA (if you're interested in it. Im doing it more for the interest rather then for the job.. I really like investment related subjects) or if not CFA then go for MBA finance. 3rd qualification would be either one of CIMA/CISA/CIA depending on whether you want to go into Management Accounting or Internal audit. I personally dislike internal audit so i would suggest CIMA but its up to the individual.

After ACCA you'll have to study part time which is not easy but you'll have to manage like everyone else.

 

[Hassan Aftab]

Well you cant plan for 5-10 years in one go .. I'd suggest that for the time being make a 3 year plan which should include completing ACCA + BSc from OBU and landing a job based on your ACCA. Once you've done that, Then you can asses your further options depending on what sort of job you have and what attracts you more (you'll know what fields you want to go into after completing ACCA since you'd have studied all the core areas).

You should ask yourself, what do you want to be? Internal Auditor? External Auditor? Investment professional? Management Accountant? Tax Accountant? There are so many fields for you to choose from. I'd suggest you go through what these roles are and the work they perform.. only after that you can identify which qualifications you want to go for. Just doing qualifications for the sake of it wont help you get anywhere. Im pursuing the CA and CFA right now and aspire to do an MBA Finance later on after CA and CFA.. That would probably be it for me because im interested in Investments and Financial Reporting.. Ideal for me would be to work in an organization's treasury department, utilizing the CFA.

The ideal qualifications if you ask me for you would be these: ACCA or CA (either one of them but since you're in pakistan inorder to do CA you'll have to do ACCA too). 2nd qualification CFA (if you're interested in it. Im doing it more for the interest rather then for the job.. I really like investment related subjects) or if not CFA then go for MBA finance. 3rd qualification would be either one of CIMA/CISA/CIA depending on whether you want to go into Management Accounting or Internal audit. I personally dislike internal audit so i would suggest CIMA but its up to the individual.

After ACCA you'll have to study part time which is not easy but you'll have to manage like everyone else.

That's seriously one inspiring response, I really am convinced.

Actually,i began to think along the same lines under the knowledge that I am hardly one year into this accounting field, so I don't know much at all about how these things work so maybe,like you said, I may spend some more time giving more exams and with time and experience I will be much more familiarized with the course content and all the derivatives. Hence,i shall be in a much better situation to decide.

Of course, I am a nobody in accountancy or finance at the moment so I'd rather concentrate on what comes first: the job at hand (ACCA itself).

PS: 1) Howcome you don't like Audit?
2) If you really were interested in Finance/Investment, wouldn't you have been better off doing an MBA Finance and then CFA or maybe an FRM and then the CFA, instead of going through the trouble of doing CIA AND CA AND CFA?
3) In what capacity are you employed at the moment,and may I also know on what basis (qualification) did you get your first ever job and where exactly?

Just curious questions.

 

[gttx]

My cousin who is a CA sings a lot of praise for CISA. I am not sure what it entails so can't advise.

How can you do CA after ACCA........do you get exemptions etc....??

 

[alamode]

That's seriously one inspiring response, I really am convinced.

Actually,i began to think along the same lines under the knowledge that I am hardly one year into this accounting field, so I don't know much at all about how these things work so maybe,like you said, I may spend some more time giving more exams and with time and experience I will be much more familiarized with the course content and all the derivatives. Hence,i shall be in a much better situation to decide.

Of course, I am a nobody in accountancy or finance at the moment so I'd rather concentrate on what comes first: the job at hand (ACCA itself).

PS: 1) Howcome you don't like Audit?
2) If you really were interested in Finance/Investment, wouldn't you have been better off doing an MBA Finance and then CFA or maybe an FRM and then the CFA, instead of going through the trouble of doing CIA AND CA AND CFA?
3) In what capacity are you employed at the moment,and may I also know on what basis (qualification) did you get your first ever job and where exactly?

Just curious questions.

1. Well Internal audit and external audit are 2 different things.. I really like external audit but i hate internal audit .. Internal audit is basically checking the controls within a company whereas External Audit is assessing if the Financial Statements of the company give a true and fair view.. Both are quite different from each other.
2. When i entered the profession i myself was confused and it was only after clearing ACCA i was clear on what i wanted to be. By the time i was clear on my future, I was already in CA .. But to be honest even if i knew before entering what i wanted to be, i wouldn't have changed my path because ACCA/CA are the basic qualifications for being an accountant.. They aren't specific to a certain area in Internal Audit or Investment or Management Accounting.. They are general qualifications and they give you an understanding of all subjects and areas.. So its always better to do ACCA or CA first and then to diversify into whichever career you want to do.
3. Well im doing my CA articleship.. At the time i joined they were offering module A to D exemption to ACCAs so i claimed exemption and started my articleship.. Our firm provides different services.. Like external audit, Risk Advisory, Internal Audit, Tax etc etc.. So the firm decides where to send you.. they may send you on external audit or they may send you on a Risk Advisory assignment etc etc.. I've performed external audit and have been involved in 3-4 companies assignments for risk advisory. Risk Advisory is pretty similar to Internal Audit, which is why i hate internal audit .. Dont like it, the work is boring..

My cousin who is a CA sings a lot of praise for CISA. I am not sure what it entails so can't advise.

How can you do CA after ACCA........do you get exemptions etc....??

Well CISA is basically Internal Controls regarding Information Technology.. So what they teach in CISA is what sort of controls you should implement in an organization in order to protect the IT Hardware and Software..

And well for the exemptions, now that route is closed. 1 year back they were offering exemptions from A to D for ACCA Affiliates so that time ACCA's could directly join firms and stat their articleship for CA and give Module E and F.. But now they have reduced exemptions so even if you have done ACCA, you still have to give 5 papers of Module B, C and D and then you can enter firms for pursuing CA