Would you let your GF wear anything she wants? Your wife?

[LordIT]

I agree with you until the point that a relationship has to have boundaries that have been mutually agreed upon by both the partners. Its everything else that I disagree with, but I am not going to contest it because you're obviously passionate about this subject and I'm not here to waste your time and mine with pointless debate.

edit: and thank you for letting me know my parents did a bad job.

 

[lifeinabucket]

Pakistan is a country defined by religious values and mindset apart from all of its flaws. Not all men in this country are women-haters but male pride is something Pakistani men cherish. Don't insult them on this front with feminist tones and don't try to project Western ideologies upon us without reason and logic. Do not forget that this country is not a playground for Western liberals to run amock and continue to insult its customs.

Lol you win.

This statement sums everything about ur personal beliefs.

Honestly, I am happy Sir Syed Ahmed Khan decided that people should learn English in 1887 when all the Indo-Pak subcontinent was in favor of boycotting the foreginers.


You consistently raise the point, that Pakistan should follow its own traditions and you don't want us to follow the West.

But you will be left behind if you don't follow how the West has progressed.

But clearly apko lagta hy we are very much competing in the upper echelon of countries as far as progression is concerned, so I can't change your mind.

 

[opethian]

[MENTION=882]LeGenD123[/MENTION] as I said earlier that people will not understand ur theory or analogies cause they learn about life from a box n wireless link n they can't understand one thing that religion is way of life and not just going to mosque on Friday or eid n having a Muslim name

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[abcd]

Why is everyone to insistent on turning this into a religion vs liberalism vs west vs pakistan debate? Just to put this topic into perspective, one google search gives you a hundred discussions about this topic and most of them are not from Pakistan.

https://www.google.com/webhp?tbm=dsc#q=girlfriend+wears+revealing+clothes&tbm=dsc

Read the replies in some and it is surprising how many 'westerners' hold the same views as 'typical Pakistani males' despite religious and cultural differences. The 'enlightened non religious west' vs the 'muslim male chauvinist Pakistan' is only one aspect of this issue.

For people from certain segments it would be acceptable even if their girlfriend sleeps with another person, for others it would result in her being stoned to death. And both are justified in a certain sense.

 

[opethian]

Look at u bro
Ur exactly a product of confused identity current generation who want to become ENLIGHTENED NON RELIGIOUS WESTERNER
If salvation is there being an ENLIGHTENED NON RELIGIOUS then who is stopping u has someone forced u?
I can't understand the mental state of people who can't abandon their religion n identity Because of any reason and out of their frustration start pointing fingers at anyone who talks about a religion
My dear confused brothers don't object someone's elesz point of view just because it is different from urs
The confrontation starts the moment when u have liberty to choose or not n instead of making your choice u start fighting n forcing others to agree with your ENLIGHTENED point of view
Ur also just like a Taliban Mulla but a western Taliban

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[LeGenD123]

Lol you win.

This statement sums everything about ur personal beliefs.

Honestly, I am happy Sir Syed Ahmed Khan decided that people should learn English in 1887 when all the Indo-Pak subcontinent was in favor of boycotting the foreginers.


You consistently raise the point, that Pakistan should follow its own traditions and you don't want us to follow the West.

But you will be left behind if you don't follow how the West has progressed.

But clearly apko lagta hy we are very much competing in the upper echelon of countries as far as progression is concerned, so I can't change your mind.

This is not about me winning or loosing in a debate, this is about explaining to you mindset of men and their respective decisions in matters of relationships accordingly. You certainly have some qualities in life which are admirable but you put me in awkward moment with your Feminist approach to address my points. You need more positivist approach in this respect.

This is the best point you made: "There is nothing wrong with following Western Norms if they are showing the right path."

I am progressive minded in life, I represent Pakistan's highly educated segment. I agree that Sir Syed was correct and people didn't notice the wisdom in his recommendation.

I do not hate WEST just because I am a Pakistani and am supposed to, I dislike some Western ideologies and traditions that are not compatible with Islamic values. I maintain a balance in my sense of progressivity and sense of religious norms. This is how people should be in Pakistan if they identify themselves as Muslims.

Islam = progress + modesty (balance)

I am coming across from both a realist and Islamic angle; A Muslim man should be concerned about modesty of his wife. He is responsible for raising his children as good Muslims and he cannot do that if his own wife will not adhere to Islamic beliefs and disrespect his concerns. A Muslim man should ideally marry a Muslim woman due to this reason alone. Boundaries should be defined in a marriage in accordance with mutual understanding of both Husband and Wife in a marriage. If you are interpreting this as a method to control a spouse, you have flawed understanding of these matters then.

Control is a good thing as long as it is implemented constructively; it is a bad thing if it is implemented abusively. Their is difference here and you need to understand this. Do not fall for negative stereotypes in social constructs and norms.

We exercise SELF-CONTROL for some reasons, in the same manner we try to enforce checks and balances in all matters concerning us. Our families are our part of our concerns and responsibilities.

You will have expectations from your wife, your wife will have expectations from you. Both can discuss this with each other and reach an understanding on this matter; this is how boundaries get defined. The crux of my suggestions.

 

[lifeinabucket]

This is not about me winning or loosing in a debate, this is about explaining to you mindset of men and their respective decisions in matters of relationships accordingly. You certainly have some qualities in life which are admirable but you put me in awkward moment with your Feminist approach to address my points. You need more positivist approach in this respect.

This is the best point you made: "There is nothing wrong with following Western Norms if they are showing the right path."

I am progressive minded in life, I represent Pakistan's highly educated segment. I agree that Sir Syed was correct and people didn't notice the wisdom in his recommendation.

I do not hate WEST just because I am a Pakistani and am supposed to, I dislike some Western ideologies and traditions that are not compatible with Islamic values. I maintain a balance in my sense of progressivity and sense of religious norms. This is how people should be in Pakistan if they identify themselves as Muslims.

Islam = progress + modesty (balance)

I am coming across from both a realist and Islamic angle; A Muslim man should be concerned about modesty of his wife. He is responsible for raising his children as good Muslims and he cannot do that if his own wife will not adhere to Islamic beliefs and disrespect his concerns. A Muslim man should ideally marry a Muslim woman due to this reason alone. Boundaries should be defined in a marriage in accordance with mutual understanding of both Husband and Wife in a marriage. If you are interpreting this as a method to control a spouse, you have flawed understanding of these matters then.

Control is a good thing as long as it is implemented constructively; it is a bad thing if it is implemented abusively. Their is difference here and you need to understand this. Do not fall for negative stereotypes in social constructs and norms.

We exercise SELF-CONTROL for some reasons, in the same manner we try to enforce checks and balances in all matters concerning us. Our families are our part of our concerns and responsibilities.

You will have expectations from your wife, your wife will have expectations from you. Both can discuss this with each other and reach an understanding on this matter; this is how boundaries get defined. The crux of my suggestions.

The best post by you , in all of these pages.

Though I disagree on the control part, but I still agree on everything else.

 

[neox3d]

Yeah time to move on. Thank you all for your time and patience...

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[FUEL2009]

^Like about time man.

I just blew a sigh of relief.

 

[FUEL2009]

"Most members to bache hain" :tv:

Yaar ye bachay bachoongday baday ho kar badal jaen gay.

 

[Pseudonym]

Not necessarily based on the quality of the discourse or topic, but just the sheer fact that no bans were issued or posts were deleted. And the thread remains open.

 

[ASKnASK]

@LeGenD123 as I said earlier that people will not understand ur theory or analogies cause they learn about life from a box n wireless link n they can't understand one thing that religion is way of life and not just going to mosque on Friday or eid n having a Muslim name

Totally agreed. That's why I don't go on Fridays either.

I am coming across from both a realist and Islamic angle; A Muslim man should be concerned about modesty of his wife. He is responsible for raising his children as good Muslims and he cannot do that if his own wife will not adhere to Islamic beliefs and disrespect his concerns. A Muslim man should ideally marry a Muslim woman due to this reason alone. Boundaries should be defined in a marriage in accordance with mutual understanding of both Husband and Wife in a marriage. If you are interpreting this as a method to control a spouse, you have flawed understanding of these matters then.

I have a question for you. You used the term 'good muslim'. Define it for me. Will a good muslim let his kids watch Frozen or Tangled or any TV at all? Will he make his wife follow the Islamic dress code and social interaction rules?

You said that boundaries should be defined in accordance with mutual understanding. What if the husband is an extremist in the dressing regards and the wife isn't?

 

[lifeinabucket]

Dil Paak nahin tow Paak hosakta nahin Insaan....

Warna Iblees ko bi buhat aatey thy Wazu ky Faraiz......

（Allama Iqbal)

 

[Ali Man]

Thought oger would have closed this thread by now....

I don't see how hard is it to understand, either the chick should roam about nude or wear winter clothes, anything in between is BS.

 

[deltree]

I can't believe this stupid thread has to carry on for so long, you a muslim the guidelines are clear for both man and woman and they be very clear and stringent. You a moderate well you can follow what you feel is right and call it 'Islam: moderation version'. You an athiest, well you can't by any notion dictate the dressing of your woman. The end!

P.S if you are any other minority, as a Pakistani who gives a flying F U C K!

 

[LeGenD123]

I have a question for you. You used the term 'good muslim'. Define it for me. Will a good muslim let his kids watch Frozen or Tangled or any TV at all? Will he make his wife follow the Islamic dress code and social interaction rules?

A good Muslim is a practicing Muslim in simple terms. Watching TV is not an issue, watching "vulgarity" is an issue, this can be made clear to the kids and enforced.

Yes, a Muslim man have an obligation to advice his wife to adopt Islamic dress code and social interaction rules. If the wife is Muslim, she will understand. A Muslim man would be failure of a husband if he does not prevents his wife from not being modest. Similarly, a Muslim wife needs to ensure that her husband stays true to Islamic beliefs himself.

You said that boundaries should be defined in accordance with mutual understanding. What if the husband is an extremist in the dressing regards and the wife isn't?

In Islam, a wife is expected to be obedient to her husband unless the husband wants her to go against principles of Islam. Muslim women should dress modestly, it doesn't matters what dress they wear but that dress should properly conceal their bodily features. If a Muslim man wants his wife to wear lets say hijab, I don't see a problem with this suggestion; a Muslim wife is likely to understand and respect her husband's concern in this respect even if she haven't worn this kind of dress before. If the wife doesn't then she is being disobedient to her husband concerning a religious matter and this will only result in tension between her and him. If a Muslim wife dresses modestly nonetheless (excluding hijab), her husband is likely to notice and accept her in this way; if not, then wife have either the option to compromise (no harm to her) or consider conflict (not beneficial to her marriage).

Compromises are realistically expected in a marriage, not just in an Islamic marriage. It is between a husband and wife to reach mutual understanding on various matters to ensure good marriage between them. Marriage is not like single life. Husband can expect his wife to compromise on certain matters and wife can expect husband to compromise on certain matters, this is the reality of most marriages all over the world.

If husband and wife are going to live like singles even after marriage, it is their mutual decision. However, these people don't have the right to judge/ridicule those couples or people who live with/demand compromises in their relationships. People who demand compromises are not bad people or control freaks, they just want chemistry that works for them in their relationships.

 

[FUEL2009]

I can't believe this stupid thread has to carry on for so long, you a muslim the guidelines are clear for both man and woman and they be very clear and stringent. You a moderate well you can follow what you feel is right and call it 'Islam: moderation version'. You an athiest, well you can't by any notion dictate the dressing of your woman. The end!

P.S if you are any other minority, as a Pakistani who gives a flying F U C K!

I salute you brother, totaly agreed.

 

[RAJNI]

Babu Jee Meri GF/ Wife kuch bhi Pehnay

Mera Kaam To ....

Samajhdaar kay liyay Ishaara Kaafi

Wizaarat E Jawaani Hakoomat E Youngistaan

 

[LordIT]

O manhood, where art thou

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[MrSibghat]

This might sound kinda wrong, but if she didn't listen she's either leaving or recieving a fucking right hook to the jawline from me.