[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

[zafarabbasrizvi]

That would really kill competition.

Telenor and Ufone should merge instead. Ufone is worthless, and nobody will even notice if they are gone since their packages and service are both complete and utter garbage anyway.

Telenor is shit so is the ufone. Zong and Ufone could be a better option.

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[shaheerk]

Telenor is shit so is the ufone. Zong and Ufone could be a better option.

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(long post warning)

Telenor and Zong merging would be anti-competitive.

Telenor and Ufone? Makes sense. It made sense before to them (when Warid or Ufone were under scrutiny) and it still makes sense. Yes, you'd have one less operator (and thus, greater chances of market collusion), but

Telenor sub + Ufone Sub (for May):
44,570,096 + 22,629,644
= 67,199,740. That's ~ 8 M more than the merged Mobilink + Warid.

Combined spectrum: let's see.
850 Mhz: 10 + 0 = 10 Mhz (Jazz: 0)
900 Mhz: 4.8 + 7.6 = 12.4 Mhz (Jazz: the same)
1800 Mhz: 8.8 + 6 = 14.8 Mhz (these two are conjoined) (Jazz: 18.8 + 6 = 24.8 Mhz)
2100 Mhz: 5 + 5 = 10 Mhz (also conjoined) (Jazz: the same).

For 2G, let's see the current division of frequencies:
Telenor: 900Mhz (4.8Mhz) + 1800Mhz (5Mhz - out of 8.8Mhz) = 9.8Mhz.
Ufone: 900Mhz (2.6Mhz) + 1800 Mhz (3Mhz out of 6 Mhz) = 5.6Mhz.
Jazz: irrelevant right now, but for pedantic reason: 900Mhz (1.8Mhz excluding 4G + 2.6 Mhz, excluding 3G) + 1800Mhz (6Mhz +3.8Mhz) = 13.2Mhz. What a waste.

For 3G, let's see the division of frequencies:
Telenor: 850Mhz (5 Mhz) + 2100Mhz (5 Mhz) = 10 Mhz.
Ufone: 9000Mhz (5 Mhz) + 2100Mhz (5 Mhz) = 10 Mhz.
Jazz: 2100 Mhz (10 Mhz) + 900 Mhz (5 Mhz) = 15 Mhz.

Since Telenor's and Ufone's 3G blocks are conjoined, they can easily get 10Mhz and DC-HSPA+. in 2100Mhz, and one operator can use their 900Mhz block or 850Mhz block to free up the spectrum, leaving another 5Mhz spare - so 15Mhz can be divided, bringing them at par with Jazz. Okay, so it's decided 5Mhz is spare - either in the 900Mhz block or the 850Mhz block, but hoping they make the right decision, they'll use Ufone's vast 900Mhz coverage and free up 850Mhz for full 10Mhz (fat chance of that logic happening...)

For 4G, let's see the current division of frequencies:
Telenor: 850Mhz (5Mhz) + 1800Mhz (3 Mhz) = 8 Mhz
Ufone: 1800Mhz (3Mhz, I believe) (so 3Mhz is left for GSM in 1800 and 2.6 Mhz in 900Mhz)
Jazz: 900 Mhz (3Mhz) + 15 Mhz (1800 Mhz) = 18 Mhz (in Islamabad only, since it's not a part of Pakistan... otherwise, no 900Mhz 4G. But for simplicity sake, let's assume 18 Mhz.

Because Telenor and Ufone have conjoined blocks in 1800Mhz, they can easily allocate 10Mhz (out of 14.8Mhz) and remember how 10Mhz freed up from 850Mhz (because we're assuming their 3G frequencies don't go below 900Mhz)? So 10 + 10 Mhz CA = boom! 20Mhz 4G.

How does that leave the two merged entities with 2G? Ufone and Telenor have a combined holding of 14.8Mhz in 1800Mhz --> so 4.8Mhz (1800Mhz, after using 10Mhz for 4G) + 4.8Mhz (Telenor 900Mhz, because 3G requires 5Mhz minimum - and Telenor doesn't have that much spectrum in 900Mhz) + 2.6Mhz (Ufone 900Mhz) = 12.2Mhz (Jazz: 14.2Mhz).

So. Ufone's got pretty good urban coverage. Telenor has good rural coverage. Both, combined, can match Mobilink's spectrum holdings, coverage and portfolio. All operators have a similar amount of spectrum (or so) for 4G. 2G spectrum is the same. 3G spectrum is the same. The only thing would be that Zong would remain on the third place (like it currently is), Jazz would become second, and the combined entity would become the largest, giving it a headstart of 7 M customers. And people don't want to leave Ufone because of their supercard. People in the suburbs won't leave Telenor because of Easypaisa and network coverage.

For me, it's a no-brainer. As for competition: the new entity + Jazz would be competing with each other, whilst Zong would still have a considerable lead in data customers which might be forced to lower its data prices (but then, nobody has their level of 4G coverage). Jazz has very fast aggregate 4G speeds. Telenor would be forced to up their game.

Would it stifle competition? Operators have been gradually increasing prices anyway owing to the USD/PKR parity, Jazz has (had) outsourced their 4G network management to Ericsson (not sure about 3G), Telenor is doing it with Nokia... so... the experienced companies are trying to do something in varying quantities... which means prices will increase anyway. But - operators will now incentivize customers to stick to their networks (such as Jazz with their thousands of on-net minutes and meager off-net minutes, or Telenor with more off-net minutes). And since Jazz is the most expensive of the lot, they might be required to rationalize their prices. And it would probably make the operators fix their data services quality though.

I say go for it! Hey PTA, Telenor or Ufone, if you need an analyst, please hire me. I'll be willing to help as long as I get a decent income.

 

[murtaza12]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

Actually Jazz spectrum in ISB for Band 3 + Band 8 4G+ is now 23 MHz instead of 18.

Ufone + Telenor combined spectrum:
850 MHz = 10 MHz
900 MHz = 12.4 MHz
1800 MHz = 14.8 MHz
2100 MHz = 10 MHz

I don't care enough about 2G/3G, they should be moving on from that anyway.

For LTE there are two options:

1) B3 (10 MHz) + B1 (10 MHz) + B8 (5 MHz) - 3xCA

2) B1 (10 MHz) + B3 (10 MHz) + B5 (10 MHz) - 3xCA

If we go option 1, then 3G will be running solely on 850 MHz, which I don't think is a good idea since there aren't too many phones out there that support 850 MHz 3G.

If we go option 2, then 3G will be running on 900 MHz only. This seems like the best way to go if they focus only and only on LTE expansion and obviously have VoLTE enabled.

If they have a total of 67 million customers, they'll really need 3xCA and VoLTE, at least in the big cities.

 

[zakiuddin]

Hello, i'm little bit offtopic but i thought you guys can help.

So, I bought telenor data sim on 11 june and subscribed to 50GB package for 1500. Next day, my internet suddenly stopped and 4g icon was gone i called helpline they said it will be solved and it get solved about few hours later(i also checked sim status on telenor app and it said sim was not registered).

ANyway my problem got solved but next i know my package suddenly vanished. I again called helpline they said it will be solved in 3 days and i didnt and till today the problem is same . The helpline guys always repeat the same line it is technical department issue it will be solved in 10 days. Today was my 3rd deadline and they again gave me 10 july date.

Totally frustrated by telenor customer care right now as i out of internet for 15 straight days and forced to use my prepaid sim package.

If anyone can reach out or have any contact to telenor please resolve my issue. i will be grateful. Thankyou
(PM for Number details)

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Telenor customer care at its best, no wonder it is one of the worst

Here is a piece of Jazz nonsense [emoji23]

 

[shaheerk]

Telenor customer care at its best, no wonder it is one of the worst

Here is a piece of Jazz nonsense [emoji23]

My experience with the Twitter guys of Jazz has been... Similar. They tend to go in circles, and eventually lodge a complaint.

Telenor says DM me, and the last time I DM'd them, I got nothing in return.

That's why I prefer emailing them instead.

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[zakiuddin]

My experience with the Twitter guys of Jazz has been... Similar. They tend to go in circles, and eventually lodge a complaint.

Telenor says DM me, and the last time I DM'd them, I got nothing in return.

That's why I prefer emailing them instead.

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All in all they are shit

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[arslanejaz33]

Update on my Complaint. I lodged a complaint to PTA and my problem got solved today. Hands off to PTA Guys.

 

[shaheerk]

Not related to Pakistan, but Airtel's 3G network is probably the first casualty in the neighboring country:

https://telecom.economictimes.india...o-to-shut-down-3g-network-in-kolkata/69986704

TL;DR: they've begun sunsetting their 3G network (at least in Kolkata, and maybe a few other places too?) And calls are either 4G or 2G (feature phone compatibility).

AT&T shut down their 2G network.

And I think one Nordic operator shut down their 3G network as well since machines and other devices that require internet connectivity use 2G, so they've kept that alive.

Which is why, [MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION], I gave some importance to 2G - because of the feature phones. Not everyone has a smart phone. Not everybody from the lower strata has a smart phone that works on 3G, and while some can pay for data bundles, most won't.

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[zafarabbasrizvi]

Thank you [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] for detailed spectrum analysis for Telenor and Ufone merger.


What if Zong and Ufone decides to merge their busoness?

First let's make a look at their spectrum

Ufone:
900 MHz: 7.6 MHz
1800 MHz: 6 MHz
2100 MHz: 5 MHz

Zong: old
900 MHz: 7.6 MHz
1800 MHz: 6 MHz+10 MHz= 16 MHz
2100 MHz: 10 MHz

Since Zong was facing cross border interference in their 7.6 MHz of 900 MHz, PTA has allocated them 6 MHz of 1800 MHz additional spectrum. So their new spectrum is

Zong: new
1800 MHz: 6 MHz+10 MHz+6 MHz= 22 MHz
2100 MHz:10 MHz


So if they merge their total spectrum be as follow

900 MHz: 7.6 MHz
1800 MHz: 28 MHz
2100 MHz: 15 MHz

As a merged company they will hold accumulated 50 million customers. Which are approximately equal to Telenor and still less than Jazz. Zong already has 12 Million 4G customers and 8 Million 3G customers. Out of Ufone's 8 Million 3G customers 5 Million will definitely have 4G phones. And Zong already have 4G coverage all over the country.

Merged company can deploye 10 MHz DC-HSPA+ services on 2100 MHz spectrum easily which Zong already has deployed all over the country. So 3G is not an issue.

For 2G customers they can use 8 MHz of 1800 MHz and 2.6 MHz for 900 MHz for 2G which would be enough for them.

For 4G customers they can deploy 3 way CA by using 20 MHz of 1800 MHz + 5 MHz of 2100 MHz + 5 MHz of 900 MHz which will accumulates their total 4G spectrum to 30 MHz.

And in future after 3 or 4 years they can even shut down 3G services in atleast 10 big cities and refarm this spectrum for 5G services because spectrum is technology neutral.

Moreover 3 companies will compete with almost similar amount of customer base.


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[murtaza12]

If Ufone and Zong were to merge, there would be a lot of spectrum shuffling required to make it contiguous since Telenor's spectrum lies between Zong and Ufone in most cases.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

If Ufone and Zong were to merge, there would be a lot of spectrum shuffling required to make it contiguous since Telenor's spectrum lies between Zong and Ufone in most cases.

For 4G it does not require to make contiguous. For 3G it does not require as well. Zong's 1800 MHz's 20 MHz is contiguous so is the 10 MHz of 2100 MHz.

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[shaheerk]

For 4G it does not require to make contiguous. For 3G it does not require as well. Zong's 1800 MHz's 20 MHz is contiguous so is the 10 MHz of 2100 MHz.

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For DC HSPA+, it has to be contiguous. For 4G - not many phones support 3xCA. 2xCA, a number of them do (but then, the Nokia 6.1 Pro doesn't either). No harm in enabling the network option though. But - one thing is for sure - CA between different spectrums is almost always better than one big chunk of spectrum in the same frequency band (since different frequencies penetrate differently, so the chances of getting a more stable connection across different spectrum is higher than it is within the same spectrum).

Your Zong + Ufone merger possibility might also work, given that Telenor won't be too far behind - but then, Zong doesn't NEED more spectrum - Telenor does, or else they shouldn't position themselves as a data service provider when they can't churn out enough bandwidth a la Mobilink or Zong (who, still, isn't half as fast as Mobilink).

Also, in addition to Bahria Town Phase 4 (where Zong and Mobilink speeds are crap - as in, around 4-5Mbps levels of crap - which won't matter if you're browsing web pages but if you intend to download - which most of us don't - then move on), Pindi Saddar (all the way from Panjsarki to AFIC) is slow not just for Zong, but for Mobilink as well now. On 4G. Both begin to function well outside of these areas.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

For DC HSPA+, it has to be contiguous. For 4G - not many phones support 3xCA. 2xCA, a number of them do (but then, the Nokia 6.1 Pro doesn't either). No harm in enabling the network option though. But - one thing is for sure - CA between different spectrums is almost always better than one big chunk of spectrum in the same frequency band (since different frequencies penetrate differently, so the chances of getting a more stable connection across different spectrum is higher than it is within the same spectrum).

Your Zong + Ufone merger possibility might also work, given that Telenor won't be too far behind - but then, Zong doesn't NEED more spectrum - Telenor does, or else they shouldn't position themselves as a data service provider when they can't churn out enough bandwidth a la Mobilink or Zong (who, still, isn't half as fast as Mobilink).

Also, in addition to Bahria Town Phase 4 (where Zong and Mobilink speeds are crap - as in, around 4-5Mbps levels of crap - which won't matter if you're browsing web pages but if you intend to download - which most of us don't - then move on), Pindi Saddar (all the way from Panjsarki to AFIC) is slow not just for Zong, but for Mobilink as well now. On 4G. Both begin to function well outside of these areas.

For 4G Zong already has 20 MHz contiguous spectrum. For 3G Zong has contiguous 10 MHz. Ufone spectrum can be used for 2G and CA for 4G.

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[murtaza12]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

Jazz increased spectrum for Rawalpindi as well. No CA with Band 8 yet, but Band 3 LTE is now showing 20 MHz instead of 15.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

Jazz increased spectrum for Rawalpindi as well. No CA with Band 8 yet, but Band 3 LTE is now showing 20 MHz instead of 15.

These companies will take at least 2 more years to shuffle their spectrum by ignoring VoLTE.

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[shaheerk]

[MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

Jazz increased spectrum for Rawalpindi as well. No CA with Band 8 yet, but Band 3 LTE is now showing 20 MHz instead of 15.

Interesting. I think they've been given the unassigned 3.9Mhz to make it a full 20Mhz. Because the Warid 6Mhz is in between another block, and they could use intra-band CA but your phone doesn't say so.

I'll check on my mum's phone in my phase (she has a Samsung) and see what the spectrum is in Phase 8.

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[murtaza12]

Interesting. I think they've been given the unassigned 3.9Mhz to make it a full 20Mhz. Because the Warid 6Mhz is in between another block, and they could use intra-band CA but your phone doesn't say so.

I'll check on my mum's phone in my phase (she has a Samsung) and see what the spectrum is in Phase 8.

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I thought they'd have enabled CA but I can still see my other phone switching to 900 MHz 3G very often so CA isn't happening any time soon.

 

[shaheerk]

I thought they'd have enabled CA but I can still see my other phone switching to 900 MHz 3G very often so CA isn't happening any time soon.

3G 900Mhz is using a different block. 4G 900Mhz is using a different block. Both coexist in Islamabad (and it still hasn't helped their calls falling back to 2G).

In my building, we have their 3G antennas. Not on my floor...so the call keeps dropping to 2G now and then, and then it becomes a pain (because the concrete is quite thick so there's a lot of distortion).

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[murtaza12]

3G 900Mhz is using a different block. 4G 900Mhz is using a different block. Both coexist in Islamabad (and it still hasn't helped their calls falling back to 2G).

In my building, we have their 3G antennas. Not on my floor...so the call keeps dropping to 2G now and then, and then it becomes a pain (because the concrete is quite thick so there's a lot of distortion).

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If they're different blocks, then the only thing that could explain them not using CA would be some sort of missing hardware on the sites.

Enabling CA with 900 MHz in Bahria would be ideal for the shit indoor coverage and it might help throughput slightly in Civic Center where it's impossible to hit higher than 4 Mbps.

 

[shaheerk]

If they're different blocks, then the only thing that could explain them not using CA would be some sort of missing hardware on the sites.

Enabling CA with 900 MHz in Bahria would be ideal for the shit indoor coverage and it might help throughput slightly in Civic Center where it's impossible to hit higher than 4 Mbps.

CA hardware: I don't think that's missing - but I don't know what's going on. Could it be that some further reshuffling took place and the info available online is stale?

Bahria Civic Center: Zong doesn't cross 4Mbps there. Neither does Mobilink. Clearly, something is wrong within that roundabout. But 900Mhz 4G is 3Mhz, and the best you could get on that spectrum is around 4Mbps (so in short, you might be able to get 8Mbps there).

But the guys aren't enabling CA anywhere else... I mean, logic doesn't exactly prevail...

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