[OT] .::The Official 3G/4G LTE Thread::.

[junejo]

So Karachi seems to be up next for LTE upgrades:

https://twitter.com/head_of_toys/status/1169883361822658561

Aiye janab jaldi Aiye waiting for so long now[emoji16]

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[junejo]

Ok here's the update
Just checked lol but speed is still same

Update speed test - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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[shaheerk]

Ok here's the update
Just checked lol but speed is still same

Update speed test - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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Yeah, some towers are just congested like that.

There's a tower in Pindi (PWD) which doesn't yield more than 30Mbps speeds. No biggie, given how my home broadband is 25Mbps.

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Edit: I was thinking - the world is moving towards 5G. That's after they've got (almost) seamless 4G coverage. But 5G doesn't work everywhere because of the frequency, and the low frequency 5G will reach in far away places, but their speeds will deteriorate accordingly.

Also, 5G only means faster data (because there's little coverage and very few phones support it).

Will it help us Pakistanis? No. Will it help us in the near future? Well... If you can get Mobilink-level speeds consistently everywhere, then you don't really need it. Also, our international bandwidth would have to increase proportionately because of the downloaders.

Right now, the world is going gaga over 5G - but it's use-case is niche at the moment. For the next 5 years, perhaps, I don't think we'll ever need 5G.

Until 4G gets congested, then 5G will get congested (not to mention the high cost of deployment), and so on and so forth.

3 UK is selling 5G routers for homes. Coverage isn't everywhere, but speeds are comparable to fiber optics. Maybe we could use that strategy here, given how fiber isn't everywhere.

 

[shaheerk]

At Carrefour, Giga Mall.

This is Telenor.

My office gets better signal than this, yet speeds are appalling there (and at a few other places as well), even with carrier aggregation enabled.

(edit: the RSRP which states -113dBm is for 1800Mhz; the ones above are for 850Mhz).

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[iNCEPTiON]

I think we should first get VoLTE rather than focusing on 5G.. Then 4G coverage should be improved..

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[zafarabbasrizvi]

I am going to meet Mr. Asif Aziz CCO Jazz tomorrow in Faisalabad. If anything general you want to ask about Jazz, tell me. [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

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[shaheerk]

I am going to meet Mr. Asif Aziz CCO Jazz tomorrow in Faisalabad. If anything general you want to ask about Jazz, tell me. [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

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1. When will VoLTE launch?

2. When will Jazz cover the rest of Pakistan with at least 3G? There are several outskirts where other operators cover with 3G, but Mobilink doesn't (e.g. one place in Attock/Taxila...which I can't seem to remember well, and several villages between Murree and Nathiagali)

3. When can I expect better 3G coverage at my home? I can't place calls on 3G 900Mhz, and the networks say they need to replan and until then, I should suck it up.

4. Can I get the employee package, please?

5. Why doesn't Jazz allow simultaneous data and voice on 3G during an active call? Telenor does. And Telenor has less spectrum than Jazz does on all frequency bands.

Not interested in 5G - we can't even get our 3G coverage at par!

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[murtaza12]

I am going to meet Mr. Asif Aziz CCO Jazz tomorrow in Faisalabad. If anything general you want to ask about Jazz, tell me. [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] [MENTION=42544]murtaza12[/MENTION]

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Just going to echo the same things as [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

But with extra emphasis on the VoLTE question.

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

1. When will VoLTE launch?

2. When will Jazz cover the rest of Pakistan with at least 3G? There are several outskirts where other operators cover with 3G, but Mobilink doesn't (e.g. one place in Attock/Taxila...which I can't seem to remember well, and several villages between Murree and Nathiagali)

3. When can I expect better 3G coverage at my home? I can't place calls on 3G 900Mhz, and the networks say they need to replan and until then, I should suck it up.

4. Can I get the employee package, please?

5. Why doesn't Jazz allow simultaneous data and voice on 3G during an active call? Telenor does. And Telenor has less spectrum than Jazz does on all frequency bands.

Not interested in 5G - we can't even get our 3G coverage at par!

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Just going to echo the same things as [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION]

But with extra emphasis on the VoLTE question.

VoLTE, Call droping from 3G to 2G within a minute and simultaneous call and data. These 3 issues are on my list. Any other issue apart from specific location based issues?

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[murtaza12]

VoLTE, Call droping from 3G to 2G within a minute and simultaneous call and data. These 3 issues are on my list. Any other issue apart from specific location based issues?

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What are their plans for spectrum shuffling in the coming months/years?

5G doesn't seem like it's ready for commercial rollout in Pak soon, so might as well keep focusing on improving 4G for the time being, and there is still definitely some room for improvement with Jazz.

Also, what's the deal with rolling out stuff like 4G+ to Islamabad first?
I'm surprised Karachi isn't the first to get these things.

 

[iNCEPTiON]

Is telenor working in RWP?? I am not getting signals..

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[shaheerk]

It wasn't for me either, and toggling airplane mode didn't help.

I was in Islamabad.

Restarting the phone fixed it, oddly.

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[Nomiforu]

Is telenor working in RWP?? I am not getting signals..

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Nor am I. Weird thing is I have Ufone & Jazz and both of them seem to be working just fine. What's up with telenor?
Their data & voice quality is degrading day by day

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

So I met with Jazz CCO Mr. Asif Aziz today and here are the answers.

1. VoLTE
The thing is Jazz is very much ready with VoLTE, but they are not launching it because they need NOC from Govt and Govt is asking NOC price which is insane to be frank. He didn't told me the price, but he said he can deploy 400 new cell site or can upgrade 800 cell sites to 4G in that price. And urbanisation of Metro cities created huge coverage holes there and require more cell sites. And we all know what is the rational decision because their VoLTE enabled devices are less so they can't make that much investment just for those set of customers. Their main focus is to upgrade 12000 4G cell sites in next 9 months which are now stand at 9000 cell sites. So we could expect VoLTE not earlier than 1 year.

2. [MENTION=63376]shaheerk[/MENTION] issue near Jails
Their technical guy told me that their is certain distance restriction by department and if we slightly try to improve coverage, they increase jammer throw and our other 20 sites get affected. So there is not something we can do about this.

3. Call drop from 3G to 2G
Their network guy told me that there are certain KPI's set in system and whenever call quality on downgrades to a certain level due to congestion, system downgrades call from 3G to 2G which because 2G does not have any congestion. It will get better after VoLTE introduction.

4. Sites where 4G turned off during loadshedding are shared sites with other companies. And this issue comes at sites which mostly shared with Ufone. They have set 3G/2G as default during load shredding. Once VoLTE goes to masses, they will change this setting to 4G/2G.

5. 4G+
4G+ is currently rolling out in Karachi. After that they will go to Lahore, Pindi, Fsd etc.

6. Simultaneous use of data and call
He was not aware of this. He told me that he has used this in other countries. When I told him that Zong and Telenor are providing it. He inquired it from his networking team, and they replied that this is technically very much possible but requires system setting in backhaul. Than he told me that he will discuss this in tomorrow's metting in Islamabad.


The main thing he talked about that it very much difficult for them to get investment from head quarter now. We can't pay about 500 Million dollars to renew license. Our ARPU is lowest in the world e.g less than 2 dollars per month. Govt taxes on equipments are very unfair. These guys are not thinking about long term rather they are going for short term gains.
He asked his technical team how much spectrum they need fof 5G,and he answered about 100 MHz. And he said if they decides same price for 5G spectrum, we can't go for it, and frankly speaking no body will. In meetings Govt officials agree with all of our points, but do nothing which makes things worse.


And well they gave me this gift as well. [emoji23] And coffee was fantastic.

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[murtaza12]

So I met with Jazz CCO Mr. Asif Aziz today and here are the answers.

Firstly, thanks a ton for taking the time to post this Zafar bhai. Really insightful stuff.

VoLTE
The thing is Jazz is very much ready with VoLTE, but they are not launching it because they need NOC from Govt and Govt is asking NOC price which is insane to be frank. He didn't told me the price, but he said he can deploy 400 new cell site or can upgrade 800 cell sites to 4G in that price. And urbanisation of Metro cities created huge coverage holes there and require more cell sites. And we all know what is the rational decision because their VoLTE enabled devices are less so they can't make that much investment just for those set of customers. Their main focus is to upgrade 12000 4G cell sites in next 9 months which are now stand at 9000 cell sites. So we could expect VoLTE not earlier than 1 year.

VoLTE requiring an NOC is by far the dumbest requirement I've ever heard of. But it makes me think, did Telenor actually fork out whatever insane amount of money was required for this NOC? Since they claim to have it on their Infinity branded phones, even though there is zero mention of it on their website.

Since the fee is so high, they'd rather divert those funds to improving coverage, which is great. But where and when is that happening?

Rather than seeing coverage improve (in ISB/RWP), I have seen it get worse in a lot of places.

4G+
4G+ is currently rolling out in Karachi. After that they will go to Lahore, Pindi, Fsd etc.

Did he happen to mention what the strategy is for choosing which location to rollout first?

Simultaneous use of data and call
He was not aware of this. He told me that he has used this in other countries. When I told him that Zong and Telenor are providing it. He inquired it from his networking team, and they replied that this is technically very much possible but requires system setting in backhaul. Than he told me that he will discuss this in tomorrow's metting in Islamabad.

This is concerning. If they know it's available as a feature, how is it that they didn't have it enabled or didn't even discuss it until 2019?

As for the remainder of the post about ARPU and the future of 5G, I can only blame that on the Govt giving zero incentive to telcos to invest in this country. With an NOC required for this and that and every little thing, coupled with unreasonably high fees, there's no surprise that the offerings from all telcos has been pretty stale for the past 2 years.

The gifts were a nice gesture though.

 

[shaheerk]

So I met with Jazz CCO Mr. Asif Aziz today and here are the answers.

1. VoLTE
The thing is Jazz is very much ready with VoLTE, but they are not launching it because they need NOC from Govt and Govt is asking NOC price which is insane to be frank. He didn't told me the price, but he said he can deploy 400 new cell site or can upgrade 800 cell sites to 4G in that price. And urbanisation of Metro cities created huge coverage holes there and require more cell sites. And we all know what is the rational decision because their VoLTE enabled devices are less so they can't make that much investment just for those set of customers. Their main focus is to upgrade 12000 4G cell sites in next 9 months which are now stand at 9000 cell sites. So we could expect VoLTE not earlier than 1 year.

So basically, they're waiting for the license renewal fee. And shouldn't VoLTE be available by the flip of the switch if they're already very much ready? And I would disagree with the 9,000 cell sites being upgraded to 4G but I don't have the numbers so...

2. @shaheerk issue near Jails
Their technical guy told me that their is certain distance restriction by department and if we slightly try to improve coverage, they increase jammer throw and our other 20 sites get affected. So there is not something we can do about this.

Thanks. I guess Mobilink is just unlucky in this regard. Honestly, if they just disable 900Mhz from 3G altogether, then that'll be the best.

3. Call drop from 3G to 2G
Their network guy told me that there are certain KPI's set in system and whenever call quality on downgrades to a certain level due to congestion, system downgrades call from 3G to 2G which because 2G does not have any congestion. It will get better after VoLTE introduction.

That's what I was told back then. Minus the VoLTE part. I guess congestion isn't the issue - it's just signal quality which is the issue, and different operators fall back at different places.

4. Sites where 4G turned off during loadshedding are shared sites with other companies. And this issue comes at sites which mostly shared with Ufone. They have set 3G/2G as default during load shredding. Once VoLTE goes to masses, they will change this setting to 4G/2G.

New for me. Cool. Didn't know that. But I didn't face these problems either.

5. 4G+
4G+ is currently rolling out in Karachi. After that they will go to Lahore, Pindi, Fsd etc.

Yes, it'll boost the speeds quite a bit even more - but they're very slow in their rollouts.

6. Simultaneous use of data and call
He was not aware of this. He told me that he has used this in other countries. When I told him that Zong and Telenor are providing it. He inquired it from his networking team, and they replied that this is technically very much possible but requires system setting in backhaul. Than he told me that he will discuss this in tomorrow's metting in Islamabad.

He's never had to use data while on a call? I don't know if Zong has enabled the option now or not, but Telenor? Yes. I wonder what he meant by "requiring a system setting in the backhaul" - it's called "dual transfer mode". Fingers crossed!

The main thing he talked about that it very much difficult for them to get investment from head quarter now. We can't pay about 500 Million dollars to renew license. Our ARPU is lowest in the world e.g less than 2 dollars per month. Govt taxes on equipments are very unfair. These guys are not thinking about long term rather they are going for short term gains.
He asked his technical team how much spectrum they need fof 5G,and he answered about 100 MHz. And he said if they decides same price for 5G spectrum, we can't go for it, and frankly speaking no body will. In meetings Govt officials agree with all of our points, but do nothing which makes things worse.

Makes sense. Somebody else (offline) was saying the same thing - that it's not getting easier for these Pakistani telcos to get funds from their parent company. It's sad the government says "yeah, we agree with you" and then shows an about-face.



And well they gave me this gift as well. [emoji23] And coffee was fantastic.

Spoiler: show

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Describe, please. Are these a lot of Rs. 100 scratch cards, two pens, two keychain fobs and a shirt of some sort?

Also, for relevance, can you briefly remind everyone how you managed to snag a meeting with him, and how many were there in total with this informal session.

And thanks for the info!

 

[zafarabbasrizvi]

Firstly, thanks a ton for taking the time to post this Zafar bhai. Really insightful stuff.


VoLTE requiring an NOC is by far the dumbest requirement I've ever heard of. But it makes me think, did Telenor actually fork out whatever insane amount of money was required for this NOC? Since they claim to have it on their Infinity branded phones, even though there is zero mention of it on their website.

Since the fee is so high, they'd rather divert those funds to improving coverage, which is great. But where and when is that happening?

Rather than seeing coverage improve (in ISB/RWP), I have seen it get worse in a lot of places.


Did he happen to mention what the strategy is for choosing which location to rollout first?


This is concerning. If they know it's available as a feature, how is it that they didn't have it enabled or didn't even discuss it until 2019?

As for the remainder of the post about ARPU and the future of 5G, I can only blame that on the Govt giving zero incentive to telcos to invest in this country. With an NOC required for this and that and every little thing, coupled with unreasonably high fees, there's no surprise that the offerings from all telcos has been pretty stale for the past 2 years.

The gifts were a nice gesture though.

I think NOC is the main reason why Zong is also not launching VoLTE despite having great 4G coverage and VoLTE ready network. There seems no other reason for the delay when everything is ready.
Talking about Telenor VoLTE, it was just a marketing gimmick. They only tested VoLTE and announced to become 1st VoLTE network. When their own people are not aware of any supported device.
So it is not the Telcos but the Govt is the actual culprit behind VoLTE.

He also mentioned this specifically to me that when we buy equipments and import from abroad, we get discounted price as compare to other Telcos because of bulk purchase as we are biggest network. But Govt impose taxes and duties on our equipment equal to the higher price of other Telcos import.

He mentioned that situation has now reached to the level where we are avoiding face to face meetings with head office and preferring video chat participation. Rupee decline badly effected ARPU. 30% jazz customers are not giving revenue even equal to two cups of tea per month.

He also mentioned that urbanisation of big cities changed the structure of our network. When we planned network a decade or so ago, structure of cities were different. Now where we install a site, some one come and construct a plaza in front of it. And our whole network structure got effected. And moving a cell site almost costs same as installing a new cell site. Icing on the cake, new housing socities created huge coverage loop holes in top 30 cities. We have strong hold in Lahore, yet we are still facing coverage issues.

Now we have to restructure our network in almost every big city. And after 12K 4G cell sites we are planning Macro cell sites. And this exercise requires additional investment. In this scenario how can we pay 500 Million for license renewal, VoLTE fee and 5G spectrum? When we are getting revenue in Rupees, why should we pay in Dollars? Whose rate increases every day.

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[zafarabbasrizvi]

So basically, they're waiting for the license renewal fee. And shouldn't VoLTE be available by the flip of the switch if they're already very much ready? And I would disagree with the 9,000 cell sites being upgraded to 4G but I don't have the numbers so...

Already answered above

Thanks. I guess Mobilink is just unlucky in this regard. Honestly, if they just disable 900Mhz from 3G altogether, then that'll be the best.

Difficult. Get a Mediatek phone or route your device and disable 900 MHz band for 3G.

That's what I was told back then. Minus the VoLTE part. I guess congestion isn't the issue - it's just signal quality which is the issue, and different operators fall back at different places.

Never experienced in Zong. But agree with him.

New for me. Cool. Didn't know that. But I didn't face these problems either.

very common issue at areas where loadshedding happens frequently.

Yes, it'll boost the speeds quite a bit even more - but they're very slow in their rollouts.

it requires PTA/FAB help to shuffle spectrum with other operators.

Describe, please. Are these a lot of Rs. 100 scratch cards, two pens, two keychain fobs and a shirt of some sort?

1 tea shirt, 2 pens, 2 writing pads, 2 key chains, 1 cap and 20 cards.

Also, for relevance, can you briefly remind everyone how you managed to snag a meeting with him, and how many were there in total with this informal session.

And thanks for the info!

Actualy it was he who arranged this meeting. I use to talk with him on twitter about different issues of jazz specially in Faisalabad. He also supposedly read our comments on propakistani.pk. So he told me on twitter that he will personally meet me whenever he visit Faisalabad next and talk with me in the presence of technical team of Faisalabad to discuss issues. So He DMed me on twitter yesterday and told me that he is visiting Faisalabad tomorrow and if I can meet him around 4 PM. Jazz regional office is at 2 minute distance from my office. So I went there today at 4 PM. And it was ONLY me who was invited. Regional head Jazz and two network guys were in meeting along with us.


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[iNCEPTiON]

It wasn't for me either, and toggling airplane mode didn't help.

I was in Islamabad.

Restarting the phone fixed it, oddly.

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I did speak to Telenor helpline and they said that they are facing issues and are working on it to fix it.

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[shah95]

Already answered above


Difficult. Get a Mediatek phone or route your device and disable 900 MHz band for 3G.



Never experienced in Zong. But agree with him.



very common issue at areas where loadshedding happens frequently.



it requires PTA/FAB help to shuffle spectrum with other operators.



1 tea shirt, 2 pens, 2 writing pads, 2 key chains, 1 cap and 20 cards.


Actualy it was he who arranged this meeting. I use to talk with him on twitter about different issues of jazz specially in Faisalabad. He also supposedly read our comments on propakistani.pk. So he told me on twitter that he will personally meet me whenever he visit Faisalabad next and talk with me in the presence of technical team of Faisalabad to discuss issues. So He DMed me on twitter yesterday and told me that he is visiting Faisalabad tomorrow and if I can meet him around 4 PM. Jazz regional office is at 2 minute distance from my office. So I went there today at 4 PM. And it was ONLY me who was invited. Regional head Jazz and two network guys were in meeting along with us.


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Vip protocol for ya bruh [emoji16]

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