Do we have free will?

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Zeus MK

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Aug 11, 2010
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Under the Mercy of the Creator
But He doesn't know which choice will I take, right? As you are sayiing He knows only the outcome.
but He does know what u will choose in the end,
and also the outcome of the millions of choices he gave to you

he just want to be just with you so that on the day of judgement 'you can be shown that the choices u took and the path you choose has lead you to either Award or Punishment'
because he doesn't want to put you directly into Heaven or Hell because 'he will show you the prove that you deserved that because you are in either of those because of your own choices'.
as he is Just, he does Justice.

This is what i believe but ALLAH knows best.
 

AsliSarmachar

Intermediate
Aug 15, 2013
196
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Karachi
but He does know what u will choose in the end,
and also the outcome of the millions of choices he gave to you

he just want to be just with you so that on the day of judgement 'you can be shown that the choices u took and the path you choose has lead you to either Award or Punishment'
because he doesn't want to put you directly into Heaven or Hell because 'he will show you the prove that you deserved that because you are in either of those because of your own choices'.
as he is Just, he does Justice.

This is what i believe but ALLAH knows best.
He does know what will i choose he does know the outcome of my choice, so where's the free will?
 

Zeus MK

Xplorer
Aug 11, 2010
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Under the Mercy of the Creator
He does know what will i choose he does know the outcome of my choice, so where's the free will?
u have a free will to choose the choices thus to choose the outcome thus to chose the reward or punishment.

but ALLAH knows what you will really choose in the end despite of the choices given to you, that's some thing else.. what do expect of your Creator? not to know some thing?

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throw a hammer at your PC display and see if it's breaks.
you had the free will to throw to break your display but it will break in the end or stay put only ALLAH knows.

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is some one stopping you from throwing the hammer?

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for you il only say that i had similar hallucinations in previous days
but to solve it just have faith in GOD and keep pure intentions and do the right thing.. going along this path you'l figure it out the answers to your questions yourself
 

Zeus MK

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Under the Mercy of the Creator
I understand you're perspective and the point you're making. But what AsliSarmachar is trying to say is, and what i'd also say is that if it is possible for anyone to know what you're going to do than its not really free will.

If we resort to religion or magic than of course, there is no argument. we can argue about the logic of the statement but the problem is rather factual.

i'll try to break it down for you and hope you see my perspective as well
If for a moment we consider that the certain religion we're looking to for an answer to whether there is a free will, was made up by some illiterates in the desert roughly one and a half thousand years ago trying to put themselves above others and gaining political power.

Whether your person 'A' is gonna choose option 1 or 2 depends on his mentality.. not 'really' his choice. its an illusion of choice.. it all breaks down to several chemical reactions going on in his brain at that moment.. a brain which evolved through natural selection over millions, or even billions of years.. and ALL his life experiences that shaped his mentality EXACTLY that way.. from the creation of his brain to ALL the things, experiences, nutrition, diseases, disorders, genetical mutations and all other things that made his mind EXACTLY the way it would be at that moment which 'he' never had any control over, determines which choice he is going to make..

and yes we both know there is something stopping him from throwing the hammer at the monitor, wanna guess? the fact that he doesn't want to damage his monitor because he likes it and uses it and know it costs money to buy another one and knows that he's not a millionaire.. what really would be stopping him if he wasn't bothered by any external experience's influence? nothing. and he'd just throw it at it. but of course for that we'd need a situation that would make him think of doing that and the mentality that'd decide to do it. Again a mentality totally composed of physical things, all the elements that we can find right here on the earth influenced and shaped by events happening on the planet that precedes him.

because person 'A' or you or me are nothing more than random things happening in the universe ourselves. We have no more free will than the snow falling over a mountain or a rock rolling down the hill, even though we have more complicated and complex composition than those things and are influenced by an extraordinary number of events in very complex and different ways.

But I think that's what makes us very, very special.

Hope you catch my drift.
that makes us very special..
so what's the point of what u said that we are special?

you talk about mentality.. if some one is insane his actions are not judged
as i said actions are judged by intentions in the court of ALLAH,
only if a man is totally fit and sane and knows about his intentions will be judged upon them.
an insane man will have no intentions.. his intentions/brain is dead any way so his choices neither makes sense and neither are accountable.

Knowledge is some thing else and free will is some thing else.

in front of the display you have the free will to either crash it with a hammer or keep it clean and well with the best possible way
if u do bash it with a hammer the next uncertain moment or not

--GOD knew it before.. so he knows what you are and what you will really become after all your choices.. what does this has anything to bother you and your free will?
so u don't want him to know the results of your choices? so u don't wan't him to be the GOD?

--do what you want, u have free will.. only that GOD knows what will really happen as a result of your free will is not some thing you should be bothered before hand.. this is it, u can't change this fact that he knows the outcome of your choices.


you are free to do what you wan't but their is a reason he is the one and only GOD.
 
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Zeus MK

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Aug 11, 2010
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Under the Mercy of the Creator
who do u call and pray to when you are in a situation when you know some thing is going beyond your hand..
and who answer your prayer and saves you from that calamity ?

so why do you call for him?
u are your own savior then save your self by yourself..

the universe is not random... every thing had a beginning and an end and all controlled by one and only GOD, that's believe and that's true and logical. because even the starting point of your theory (The big Bang) had not ignited by it self.. their was some thing whcih ignited it don't you think.. is it not logical or any thing less.. it was always GOD
 
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Nauman 360

Ex Gamer.
Feb 3, 2008
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who do u call and pray to when you are in a situation when you know some thing is going beyond your hand..
and who answer your prayer and saves you from that calamity ?

so why do you call for him?
u are your own savior then save your self by yourself..

the universe is not random... every thing had a beginning and an end and all controlled by one and only GOD, that's believe and that's true and logical. because even the starting point of your theory (The big Bang) had not ignited by it self.. their was some thing whcih ignited it don't you think.. is it not logical or any thing less.. it was always GOD
sure bro..
 

Pink PanthEr

Keep Hope Alive
Jul 6, 2010
956
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Islamabad
.. it all breaks down to several chemical reactions going on in his brain at that moment.. a brain which evolved through natural selection over millions, or even billions of years.
you really believe that ?

our brain did not evolved through natural selection over millions, or even billions of years because you and your brain is just a few decades old.lol

another question for you is would it be difficult for someone to know what choices we'll make if he knows everything about you and everyone around you and the type of "chemical reactions" happening in your brain and their outcome ? yes ? how exactly him having this knowledge takes away your free will from you ?
 

assasin42o

Don Vito Corléone
Moderator
Aug 9, 2009
3,952
12
43
KHI ✈ ISL
but He does know what u will choose in the end,
and also the outcome of the millions of choices he gave to you
He knows what path I'll choose, he knows what will be the outcome of that path. He knows if we'll be punished or not.

So if he knows everything, what's the whole point of the creation?
 

munsifb

Talented
Mar 20, 2010
71
0
11
Winnipeg
I understand you're perspective and the point you're making. But what AsliSarmachar is trying to say is, and what i'd also say is that if it is possible for anyone to know what you're going to do than its not really free will.

If we resort to religion or magic than of course, there is no argument. we can argue about the logic of the statement but the problem is rather factual.

i'll try to break it down for you and hope you see my perspective as well
If for a moment we consider that the certain religion we're looking to for an answer to whether there is a free will, was made up by some illiterates in the desert roughly one and a half thousand years ago trying to put themselves above others and gaining political power.

Whether your person 'A' is gonna choose option 1 or 2 depends on his mentality.. not 'really' his choice. its an illusion of choice.. it all breaks down to several chemical reactions going on in his brain at that moment.. a brain which evolved through natural selection over millions, or even billions of years.. and ALL his life experiences that shaped his mentality EXACTLY that way.. from the creation of his brain to ALL the things, experiences, nutrition, diseases, disorders, genetical mutations and all other things that made his mind EXACTLY the way it would be at that moment which 'he' never had any control over, determines which choice he is going to make..

and yes we both know there is something stopping him from throwing the hammer at the monitor, wanna guess? the fact that he doesn't want to damage his monitor because he likes it and uses it and know it costs money to buy another one and knows that he's not a millionaire.. what really would be stopping him if he wasn't bothered by any external experience's influence? nothing. and he'd just throw it at it. but of course for that we'd need a situation that would make him think of doing that and the mentality that'd decide to do it. Again a mentality totally composed of physical things, all the elements that we can find right here on the earth influenced and shaped by events happening on the planet that precedes him.

because person 'A' or you or me are nothing more than random things happening in the universe ourselves. We have no more free will than the snow falling over a mountain or a rock rolling down the hill, even though we have more complicated and complex composition than those things and are influenced by an extraordinary number of events in very complex and different ways.

But I think that's what makes us very, very special.

Hope you catch my drift.
My thoughts exactly.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk now Free
 

Distress

GTFO!! Moron
Sep 23, 2008
659
0
21
37
Islamabad
He does know what will i choose he does know the outcome of my choice, so where's the free will?
Allah SWT is free from time and space, u don't know what will u choose or it's outcome because time is involved. but Allah foresee everything because he created everything including time :)
 

munsifb

Talented
Mar 20, 2010
71
0
11
Winnipeg
Allah SWT is free from time and space, u don't know what will u choose or it's outcome because time is involved. but Allah foresee everything because he created everything including time :)
I know what I will choose as I chose to reply your post :p

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Distress

GTFO!! Moron
Sep 23, 2008
659
0
21
37
Islamabad
I know what I will choose as I chose to reply your post :p

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk now Free
but u replied on my post. what if I had no post to reply on :p That's the difference, Allah knew that I will make a post and u will reply on it but u only came to know that u have to reply to my post when u saw my post. I know this is complex buy try to grasp it :p

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If God created time what was before time?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
only Allah swt knows
ok let's come to ur point what was before big bang? who created that very first atom that leads to bigbang?
 

munsifb

Talented
Mar 20, 2010
71
0
11
Winnipeg
but u replied on my post. what if I had no post to reply on :p That's the difference, Allah knew that I will make a post and u will reply on it but u only came to know that u have to reply to my post when u saw my post. I know this is complex buy try to grasp it :p

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OK sure thing brother.


Sent from my Spaceship using PTCL now Free
 

Ottoman

Senior
Sep 15, 2008
8,587
3
44
Wow Chhowni
How does one explain sight to the blind and sound to the deaf? Explaining the concept of 'taqdeer' isn't any different because it simply transcends what the human mind is capable of understanding.

When did time start? What factors initiated the Big Bang ? How did space come into existence? Why do we swallow everything science throws at us yet question everything related to religion?

Taking the path of proving religion and religious matters through logic is cumbersome and rarely produces fruitful results. Just like biological phenomenons can't be proven using pure mathematics you know.
 

munsifb

Talented
Mar 20, 2010
71
0
11
Winnipeg
Why do we swallow everything science throws at us yet question everything related to religion?
Which thing do you prefer to believe in ? A thing written in a book which is itself written about 1400 years ago or a thing which has more than enough evidence and has proved to work under a lot of difference circumstances?



Sent from my Spaceship using PTCL now Free
 

Distress

GTFO!! Moron
Sep 23, 2008
659
0
21
37
Islamabad
If u r religious then read this "Verily, His command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, “Be!”– and it is!) [Surah Yasin:82)"
That is how he created time, space universe earth and everything. what was before the creation of universe is beyond our limit and we r not allowed to dwell in such topics. If Allah wanted us to know everything about what was before creation etc he would have told us in glorious Quran.
if u r an atheist then please answer what was before big bang? how did big bang happened in the first place? :p
 

Ottoman

Senior
Sep 15, 2008
8,587
3
44
Wow Chhowni
Which thing do you prefer to believe in ? A thing written in a book which is itself written about 1400 years ago or a thing which has more than enough evidence and has proved to work under a lot of difference circumstances?



Sent from my Spaceship using PTCL now Free
Have you ever gone to the lengths of proving a scientific theory yourself? Or did you just believe Newton mechanics hold true because xyz number of people said it works at the macroscopic level? Or perhaps you followed a set of specific experiments which proves it's true? Why doesn't such a theory hold at the quantum level?

I don't go looking for reasons or evidences to believe in what I do. Infact such an approach would only nullify one's faith.

In short, people are using the wrong method to find the right answer. Refer to my earlier post.
 
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