CA -|- Chartered Accountants Thread

[Smartperson]

Well thanks for the info man! i recently tried to pull some strings to get an ICAEW training contract in the big4 or maybe top 10 without any success...but this consoles me that there is still hope in audit firms out there...warna i was finally gonna give in to applying for icaew training in industry after this june attempt.

And yes thats the sad truth...they offer you the china version of the ICAEW training contract in pakistan...Big4, top 10 or whichever firm it is..
jo loag dil pe pathar rakh k mushkilo se ICAP trainees ko 8000rs monthly dyty hain, unka dimag toh kharab nai ke wo humari rs.25,000+ fees per paper and annual subscription dain
but the MAJOR advantage is that they dont care about exam progress... if a firm sponsers your ICAEW fees and training in the UK, they expect you to pass...
if you fail an exam while training with them with a margin of 10%...they terminate your contract.

in pakistan, on the other hand...they dont care how many attempts you take...they just want you to do their work for 8000rs per month

yeah you are right but are you graduate?
because they were not inducting ACCA they were actually giving graduate 4 years training contact.
in the 1st interview he said you have to stay till 10 pm... is it ok?
you have to travel interior sindh ... is it ok ?
i was really confused in the first interview ... because it was like they were buying my life for 8000 per month...

 

[Xzan23]

yeah you are right but are you graduate? because they were not inducting ACCA they were actually giving graduate 4 years training contact.in the 1st interview he said you have to stay till 10 pm... is it ok?you have to travel interior sindh ... is it ok ?i was really confused in the first interview ... because it was like they were buying my life for 8000 per month...

nop bro i dont have any graduation but im a registered student with the icaew. So maybe i wouldve been eligible. Khair ill contact them after my attempt for info.
hmm thats strange... maybe the icaew qualified partner under whom you were going to be inducted was in that 'interior sindh' area at a client maybe and wouldve taken your interview there..
but such kinda situation normally doesnt happen :s
didnt you ask why are they taking you into the interior sindh location?

well firms kinda DO buy your life for 8000rs per month. join audit if you like it and if you can handle the pressure..
warna after 3 years ull leave the firm with your personality changed to a deeply frustrated man.
but if you tackle your training, pressures and workload for 3 years efficiently and patiently, ull leave the firm as a veryyy well groomed professional.
Audit is just not work, work & work...its financial politics.

 

[saadi939]

[MENTION=30496]Xzan23[/MENTION]
Does ey offer icaew contracts? I chose paper p6 and p7 mainly because at that time, ey did use to offer icaew contract... do they still do that (i've heard they dont, after all that icap notice issue, but not sure)?
Another thing... I have heard of some MRA between icaew and icap? do you have any idea about that? i mean if it really has some benefit for icaew registered students?
.
and in the industry sector, do you know of any companies which offer them?

 

[Smartperson]

nop bro i dont have any graduation but im a registered student with the icaew. So maybe i wouldve been eligible. Khair ill contact them after my attempt for info.
hmm thats strange... maybe the icaew qualified partner under whom you were going to be inducted was in that 'interior sindh' area at a client maybe and wouldve taken your interview there..
but such kinda situation normally doesnt happen :s
didnt you ask why are they taking you into the interior sindh location?

well firms kinda DO buy your life for 8000rs per month. join audit if you like it and if you can handle the pressure..
warna after 3 years ull leave the firm with your personality changed to a deeply frustrated man.
but if you tackle your training, pressures and workload for 3 years efficiently and patiently, ull leave the firm as a veryyy well groomed professional.
Audit is just not work, work & work...its financial politics.

they must have some clients there ...
and they were offering 4 years graduate icap contract to acca affiliate + graduate.
and yeah you get well groomed if your get perfect mentor in audit firm, else your life is hell.

 

[Xzan23]

@Xzan23
Does ey offer icaew contracts? I chose paper p6 and p7 mainly because at that time, ey did use to offer icaew contract... do they still do that (i've heard they dont, after all that icap notice issue, but not sure)?
Another thing... I have heard of some MRA between icaew and icap? do you have any idea about that? i mean if it really has some benefit for icaew registered students?
.
and in the industry sector, do you know of any companies which offer them?

Yes EY does offer ICAEW articles...so does kpmg, deloitte and all the top 10 firms in pak. But ever since the ban by ICAP, they've stopped providing articles. Because they cant risk their practicing license by violating an ICAP order....but as @Smartperson tells me, apparently firms are providing ICAEW contracts...maybe they are doing it without telling ICAP (obviously).
but another thing to consider is, that to get ICAEW articles in big4, ull need reference...coz they dont advertize for requirement for ICAEW trainees...so ull need someone to put in a good word for you to get a training contract in the big4.

and about your industry query...Yes many companies provide ICAEW articles in the industry and ICAP cant do shit to ban them...coz it has no pull in the industry..
Multi-nationals like ICI pakistan, Standard chartered, Shell, World Call, Nishat Chunian, Wi-tribe, telenor provide ICAEW articles. and the good thing is they pay you good rates of salaries too!
Eg. 25,000rs/month in Telenor, 30-35k in Wi-tribe and Standard Chartered (thats what ive heard)... But i cannot say if their exposure is equal to the exposure of accountancy firms. But agar seekhnay wala banda hai toh i guess industry mai bhi wo seekh jata hai.
Here's a list of all ICAEW approved employers in pakistan.
April 2013 - Pakistan ATE List.pdf


Yes, ICAEW and ICAP have signed a MoU. According to it, a full ICAP qualified MEMBER can join ICAEW and will just need to attempt 3 papers. On passing, he/she will become an ICAEW qualified member too... no requirment for 3 years of ICAEW training contract...it goes the other way around too for full Qualified ICAEW members who want to join ICAP.

 

[alamode]

But i cannot say if their exposure is equal to the exposure of accountancy firms. But agar seekhnay wala banda hai toh i guess industry mai bhi wo seekh jata hai.

Yar i personally feel sab kehnay ki batain hoti hain. Firm main agar banda chahe tou bohat kuch seekh sakta hai but no one does. Jab audit main logon ki lagti hai tou sirf kaam pailna seekhtay hain . But industry main reputation bani howi hai big 4 ki tou they prefer big 4 trainees.

 

[Xzan23]

Yar i personally feel sab kehnay ki batain hoti hain. Firm main agar banda chahe tou bohat kuch seekh sakta hai but no one does. Jab audit main logon ki lagti hai tou sirf kaam pailna seekhtay hain . But industry main reputation bani howi hai big 4 ki tou they prefer big 4 trainees.

EXACTLY!.... ive stalked lots and LOTS of ACCA/ICAEW professionals on pk.linkedin.com (i hope you guys know what linkedin is)...ive read their experience profiles and seen that people who qualified as ICAEW in the industry are Financial Controllers and Internal Audit Head in Dubai, KSA etc.
Agar banda seekhne wala hai toh he will groom himself.

because the mentality of seniors i saw in my ex-firm was something like this
"yaar daikho is audit ko is tarha karo takay manager review kartay hue is se satisfy ho jaye...pehlay page se genuine kaam karo...aur aglay page pe paill do sara...manager agay check nai karta"

lol they werent there for learning...they just wanted to get thru their articles by keeping the manager happy.and avoiding his danda

khair this the attitude of those who join audit just for its name, not because they are actually intrested in this sector.

 

[alamode]

EXACTLY!.... ive stalked lots and LOTS of ACCA/ICAEW professionals on pk.linkedin.com (i hope you guys know what linkedin is)...ive read their experience profiles and seen that people who qualified as ICAEW in the industry are Financial Controllers and Internal Audit Head in Dubai, KSA etc.
Agar banda seekhne wala hai toh he will groom himself.

because the mentality of seniors i saw in my ex-firm was something like this
"yaar daikho is audit ko is tarha karo takay manager review kartay hue is se satisfy ho jaye...pehlay page se genuine kaam karo...aur aglay page pe paill do sara...manager agay check nai karta"

lol they werent there for learning...they just wanted to get thru their articles by keeping the manager happy.and avoiding his danda

khair this the attitude of those who join audit just for its name, not because they are actually intrested in this sector.

Exactly ! Bas aaj kal industry main jobs advertise hoti hain that you must be a CA qualified from "Big 4".. thats the only value. Learning wise itna farq nai parta.

Im at the end of my articles, and im thinking about my 3-3.5 years.. koi aisa kaam nahi kia hai jissay i feel i have an advantage over someone who has worked in industry. Bas clients obviously thoray ziada hain tou understanding of different entities is there.. Apart from that, no difference.

 

[Xzan23]

Exactly ! Bas aaj kal industry main jobs advertise hoti hain that you must be a CA qualified from "Big 4".. thats the only value. Learning wise itna farq nai parta.

Im at the end of my articles, and im thinking about my 3-3.5 years.. koi aisa kaam nahi kia hai jissay i feel i have an advantage over someone who has worked in industry. Bas clients obviously thoray ziada hain tou understanding of different entities is there.. Apart from that, no difference.

well thats just how the world works...but yar firm mostly matters when a person is not qualified... if you are a qualified CA, no matter from which firm, they will give you serious consideration.

so bro whats your plan after your articles? job? abroad? ya continue in pwc?
i personally know a guy who worked in PwC for 12 years, and then he got an offer to be a CFO for a banking group in KSA.
They told him to "Name your Salary and we'll give it to you".
you planning anything similar to this?

 

[hasnain1sds]

[MENTION=39471]Blastwave[/MENTION] please sticky this thread.

 

[BaqarNaqvi]

I dont know about the audit yar. I am more into Finance Management and Performance Management

 

[Xzan23]

Congrats Future Chartered Accountants.
the thread is now sticky-ed (sm1)

 

[alamode]

well thats just how the world works...but yar firm mostly matters when a person is not qualified... if you are a qualified CA, no matter from which firm, they will give you serious consideration.

so bro whats your plan after your articles? job? abroad? ya continue in pwc?
i personally know a guy who worked in PwC for 12 years, and then he got an offer to be a CFO for a banking group in KSA.
They told him to "Name your Salary and we'll give it to you".
you planning anything similar to this?

Haha nai yaar, firm main ruknay ka irada tou nahi hai but ofcourse kaheen aur nahi mili job tou phir yahi option hai kay firm main ruk jaon . Wanna go abroad.. Lets see.. alot depends on CA Final exams in june.. if i qualify then i dont think ill stay in firm.. but if i dont, then shayad rukna paray for 6 more months.. industry main leaves nahi milti for exams so that is a big -ve lekin apart from that i have no intention of staying in firm.

Yar KSA main jobs hojati hain, wahan kay logon ko kaam kia ata hai .. saray pakistani CA's hi bharay howay hain udher..

 

[haiderhaider]

Okay so I think we have talked a lot about interviews/qualifying acca,ca/getting a job,contract etc.

What I would really like to know is what kind of games do other chartered accountants play?

I myself am an avid RPG enthusiast. Used to play CS 1.6 had my own clan and all that ( long time ago ) been playing dota since 6.18 and currently am playing CS:GO with a skill rank of Gold Nova 3.

Also I own World of Warcraft retail have a level 90 hunter but don't get time for that these days.

 

[alamode]

Okay so I think we have talked a lot about interviews/qualifying acca,ca/getting a job,contract etc.

What I would really like to know is what kind of games do other chartered accountants play?

I myself am an avid RPG enthusiast. Used to play CS 1.6 had my own clan and all that ( long time ago ) been playing dota since 6.18 and currently am playing CS:GO with a skill rank of Gold Nova 3.

Also I own World of Warcraft retail have a level 90 hunter but don't get time for that these days.

Games and chartered accountants?

After firm its very difficult cause of exams and work both.. ..

 

[saadi939]

Yes EY does offer ICAEW articles...so does kpmg, deloitte and all the top 10 firms in pak. But ever since the ban by ICAP, they've stopped providing articles. Because they cant risk their practicing license by violating an ICAP order....but as @Smartperson tells me, apparently firms are providing ICAEW contracts...maybe they are doing it without telling ICAP (obviously).
but another thing to consider is, that to get ICAEW articles in big4, ull need reference...coz they dont advertize for requirement for ICAEW trainees...so ull need someone to put in a good word for you to get a training contract in the big4.

and about your industry query...Yes many companies provide ICAEW articles in the industry and ICAP cant do shit to ban them...coz it has no pull in the industry..
Multi-nationals like ICI pakistan, Standard chartered, Shell, World Call, Nishat Chunian, Wi-tribe, telenor provide ICAEW articles. and the good thing is they pay you good rates of salaries too!
Eg. 25,000rs/month in Telenor, 30-35k in Wi-tribe and Standard Chartered (thats what ive heard)... But i cannot say if their exposure is equal to the exposure of accountancy firms. But agar seekhnay wala banda hai toh i guess industry mai bhi wo seekh jata hai.
Here's a list of all ICAEW approved employers in pakistan.
April 2013 - Pakistan ATE List.pdf


Yes, ICAEW and ICAP have signed a MoU. According to it, a full ICAP qualified MEMBER can join ICAEW and will just need to attempt 3 papers. On passing, he/she will become an ICAEW qualified member too... no requirment for 3 years of ICAEW training contract...it goes the other way around too for full Qualified ICAEW members who want to join ICAP.

Thanks a lot for the detailed info... it makes me believe i made a good choice in choosing p6 and p7, especially the salary part

reference is an issue here, dont have any good contact in any firm :\ I can just hope this icap issue gets resolved quickly, ,,, or is there anything else i can do/try?

about that learning part, yea I also think the same way.. I basically want to join an institute jis ke baad bahar jaane ke ache prospects hon.. aur ziyada to yehi suna hai ke audit firm ke trained logon ko easily jobs mil jaati hain globally as compared to people who join industry... what would you say??

and one other thing... after p6 and p7, i think ill be only left with 3 more papers of icaew right? and i need to complete them to join icap. and if i join icap, i'll be getting exemption till module D or even more? and how long does it take to complete those icaew's 3 papers? and is it even worth the effort to study them? because i have heard that they are like really really difficult and most people dont do them... the icaew contracts that are being providied here in pakistan, are they for full qualified? or can i join them after jsut gaining the exemption??

 

[saadi939]

Okay so I think we have talked a lot about interviews/qualifying acca,ca/getting a job,contract etc.

What I would really like to know is what kind of games do other chartered accountants play?

I myself am an avid RPG enthusiast. Used to play CS 1.6 had my own clan and all that ( long time ago ) been playing dota since 6.18 and currently am playing CS:GO with a skill rank of Gold Nova 3.

Also I own World of Warcraft retail have a level 90 hunter but don't get time for that these days.

haha good idea to change the subject a little

Well i am into EVERY sort of game, depends basically on the mood. like these days (when the month of june is closing in and dont get much time to play) i am only into sports (fifa and sometimes nfs), but about a month or two ago, i was like borderlands 2, bioshock, resident evil and stuff like that....
multiplayer me battlefield 3 mostly, but sometimes some other touches like a match or two in assassins creed and like that ...
So I am like an all rounder ... fps, tps, strategy, rpg .. as long as the game is good

 

[alamode]

a I also think the same way.. I basically want to join an institute jis ke baad bahar jaane ke ache prospects hon.. aur ziyada to yehi suna hai ke audit firm ke trained logon ko easily jobs mil jaati hain globally as compared to people who join industry... what would you say??

and one other thing... after p6 and p7, i think ill be only left with 3 more papers of icaew right? and i need to complete them to join icap. and if i join icap, i'll be getting exemption till module D or even more? and how long does it take to complete those icaew's 3 papers? and is it even worth the effort to study them? because i have heard that they are like really really difficult and most people dont do them... the icaew contracts that are being providied here in pakistan, are they for full qualified? or can i join them after jsut gaining the exemption??

Yar yeah, thats true. Trainees from firms usually do get jobs abroad in middle east mostly ya agar pawwa ho tou UK/US/Canada bhi ho jati hai. Its very difficult to move from industry to abroad. Firm walay during training might even send trainees to secondments for dubai/saudia etc so that also increases your chances of getting job over there after the end of articles. BUT, you can try your luck after gaining 1-2 years of experience by going to middle east (usually logon ki hojati hai but you need to go there physically and give interviews specially during nov-jan session because thats the time when firms do their hiring in middle east)

And yeah, you'll be left with 3 papers of ICAEW.. But why would you want to join ICAP after ICAEW? Karna ho tou karlo, koi disadvantage nahi hai but ICAEW is superior in my opinion.. more widely recognized as compared to ICAP. You'll get full exemption for ICAP except for 2 papers (Advance Taxation and Corporate Law). So you'll have to become an ICAEW member and then apply for exemption from ICAP and then sit for these 2 exams. Yes they are hard, but they are passable. Jo log aik sath pora module detay hain unkay liyay its tough, but if you give 1 or 2 papers in a session then its not that tough, although ICAP's checking is very weird and ridiculous.

 

[saadi939]

Yar yeah, thats true. Trainees from firms usually do get jobs abroad in middle east mostly ya agar pawwa ho tou UK/US/Canada bhi ho jati hai. Its very difficult to move from industry to abroad. Firm walay during training might even send trainees to secondments for dubai/saudia etc so that also increases your chances of getting job over there after the end of articles. BUT, you can try your luck after gaining 1-2 years of experience by going to middle east (usually logon ki hojati hai but you need to go there physically and give interviews specially during nov-jan session because thats the time when firms do their hiring in middle east)

And yeah, you'll be left with 3 papers of ICAEW.. But why would you want to join ICAP after ICAEW? Karna ho tou karlo, koi disadvantage nahi hai but ICAEW is superior in my opinion.. more widely recognized as compared to ICAP. You'll get full exemption for ICAP except for 2 papers (Advance Taxation and Corporate Law). So you'll have to become an ICAEW member and then apply for exemption from ICAP and then sit for these 2 exams. Yes they are hard, but they are passable. Jo log aik sath pora module detay hain unkay liyay its tough, but if you give 1 or 2 papers in a session then its not that tough, although ICAP's checking is very weird and ridiculous.

Thats one of the reasons I really want to join firm... us ke baad career prospects bohut behtar hain...

ohh so only the members of the bodies can qualify for this exemption. ya phir just after passing the papers of icaew bhi join kar skte hain icap (without the experience that is)

yeah i think the same, icaew is already good enough. But I thinking to join CA only to get in audit firms. i think its getting really hard for ACCAs and ICAEWs to join BIG 4 :\ .... And i, like, really want to be there...

do you know about the fees? if i claim exemption of icaew papers after acca, do i have to pay all the fees of the papers of which exemption is given?

 

[alamode]

Thats one of the reasons I really want to join firm... us ke baad career prospects bohut behtar hain...
ohh so only the members of the bodies can qualify for this exemption. ya phir just after passing the papers of icaew bhi join kar skte hain icap (without the experience that is)
yeah i think the same, icaew is already good enough. But I thinking to join CA only to get in audit firms. i think its getting really hard for ACCAs and ICAEWs to join BIG 4 :\ .... And i, like, really want to be there...
do you know about the fees? if i claim exemption of icaew papers after acca, do i have to pay all the fees of the papers of which exemption is given?

Yup its only for members.. which means you need to complete experience too under ICAEW contract and become ICAEW member, then you can apply for exemption from ICAP and give remaining 2 papers.
Yaar ACCA's can get into firms abhi bhi. Even in big 4 they are still inducting ACCAs. Kam kar rahay hain but they are doing (i think KPMG definately is and i think EY and Deloitte are also doing.. PwC is hiring ACCA's on a need basis on employment contract not on ICAP contract). So you can still get Big 4 experience, there are still opportunities bas CA wala route blocked hai for ACCAs due to decreased exemptions.

Yar the time i claimed icaew exemptions, they were completely free. I claimed in 2009 or 2010. But after one year they changed their policy and said that if you want to claim exemptions, they are still free but you have to pay admission fees because alot of people were just claiming exemptions for fun .

So im not sure whats their policy at the moment, maybe you can still get exemptions for free but you'd have to pay admission fees.