Understanding the dynamics of Karachi

[Lord AvaLon]

Purpose of this thread is not to start an all out war. I am assuming that we are well informed and do not need information about how good or bad anyone is. Moreover, a political discussions is again not intended but I need to understand something so asking the question across the board.
The recent accusation against MQM and leaders of this party proved to be a set back but the irony is that so many things are happening in the country that media shortly forgets, if not forgives. So mostly things are left in the middle and we all move on.
I happened to see face book posts whereby the party was declared traitor along with the leadership, no stone was left unturned to malign it to an unimaginable extent and it was not only confined to face book. All the demagogues, no matter to which party they belonged to had the same things to say. The strange thing was, where everyone was busy hailing army, rangers and N-league; nobody was there to defend them. I mean the comments should be a mixed bag of respect and hatred with a fair share of swearing hurled toward each other. But everyone seemed to have the similar opinion.
My Question from the learned fellows is; if nobody supports it, who does? How are they still in parliaments? Considering that major chunk of Karachi doesn't use internet, there should have at least been a few people trying to defend the vote they cast. How is it possible that there is a mutual consensus among the people, yet the party is still thriving as they won the seat of Nine zero against all odds.

 

[Blastwave]

What are you blabbering on about?

Your question is vague.

 

[Lord AvaLon]

Its fairly easy one.
What i want to know is that if there is a general consensus among public, media and all the political parties that the accusations labeled on MQM are true, how come does it still win elections, do what it wants and sitting in provincial and national assembly.
Since I have never seen anyone defending MQM on social media and it seems that everyone believes that MQM is the culprit behind all the ills in Karachi.

 

[iNF3RN0]

I would love to see how this thread will end up as most of the political debates here on PG don't ends well. I can't say much regarding your question, because I have a "politics = bullshit" policy.

 

[Blastwave]

Its fairly easy one.
What i want to know is that if there is a general consensus among public, media and all the political parties that the accusations labeled on MQM are true, how come does it still win elections, do what it wants and sitting in provincial and national assembly.
Since I have never seen anyone defending MQM on social media and it seems that everyone believes that MQM is the culprit behind all the ills in Karachi.

NO

General consensus among public? What public?

NA 240 Elections were fair and they proved the point that the "GENERAL CONSENSUS" is that we NEED MQM in Karachi.

Since I have never seen anyone defending MQM on social media and it seems that everyone believes that MQM is the culprit behind all the ills in Karachi.

You have a very limited social exposure. VERY limited.

 

[NaNoW]

Its fairly easy one.
What i want to know is that if there is a general consensus among public, media and all the political parties that the accusations labeled on MQM are true, how come does it still win elections, do what it wants and sitting in provincial and national assembly.
Since I have never seen anyone defending MQM on social media and it seems that everyone believes that MQM is the culprit behind all the ills in Karachi.

Absolutely wrong. Apart from Altaf hussain himself and their "Bhai-giri" most of the MQM office bearers are middle class highly educated individuals who are very well respected.
Also MQM's stance on alot of hot button issues is usually very logical and resonates with people. Another thing is that their political leadership has not been implicated with corruption as far as I know.
As far as I can tell, having Altaf Hussain as a leader does MQM more harm than good.

The reality is only 35-40 % of Karachi is under MQM's political stronghold....A large percentage lies with Military, PPP, ANP, JI, PTI, ASWJ, afghan immgrants, various smaller gangs and parties etc..Karachi is a boiling pot of a large number of groups and saying any one party is responsible is wrong.
I dont vote for any political party, since my stance is exactly the same as inf3rn0s ...political parties in pakistan are all BS...But if I had to choose with a gun on my head, MQM prolly would be in top two.



BTW we need to make sure that this thread doesnt become politicized..and remains based on rational and figurative arguments

 

[Blastwave]

BTW we need to make sure that this thread doesnt become politicized..and rational

:salute:

Aye aye Captain

 

[ahmed anas]

Purpose of this thread is not to start an all out war. I am assuming that we are well informed and do not need information about how good or bad anyone is. Moreover, a political discussions is again not intended but I need to understand something so asking the question across the board...

Apart from Altaf hussain himself and their "Bhai-giri" most of the MQM office bearers are middle class highly educated individuals who are very well respected.

To those that live a bit far from karachi, the face of MQM is Altaf Hussain and (to put it lightly) that's not a pretty face... Plus no matter what that guy says everyone in MQM supports it and many times he then apologizes or takes back his words. Unfortunately this is true that every single political party does this, but this happens far too often with MQM.

So basically the general consensus as you go far from karachi is that MQM is pretty shitty, etc...

Now for a bit of personal opinion , MQM without Altaf Hussain might be super awesome (and it might just be the same), but MQM is with Altaf Hussain as its head and a body with that kind of head can't do much no matter how good it is...

But at the end of the day, all parties in Pakistan (and majority in the rest of the world too) are corrupt to the core, one way or another...

 

[Blastwave]

To those that live a bit far from karachi, the face of MQM is Altaf Hussain and (to put it lightly) that's not a pretty face... Plus no matter what that guy says everyone in MQM supports it and many times he then apologizes or takes back his words. Unfortunately this is true that every single political party does this, but this happens far too often with MQM.

So basically the general consensus as you go far from karachi is that MQM is pretty shitty, etc...

Now for a bit of personal opinion , MQM without Altaf Hussain might be super awesome (and it might just be the same), but MQM is with Altaf Hussain as its head and a body with that kind of head can't do much no matter how good it is...

But at the end of the day, all parties in Pakistan (and majority in the rest of the world too) are corrupt to the core...

The problem with succession in MQM is a long, hectic debate.

The entire MAHAJIR/URDU SPEAKING rights issue IS a real issue and that issue only found its saviors in MQM.

Karachi is NOT Lahore, ISB, Quetta or Peshawar. Karachi is in its true sense a multicultural hub where no one party has absolute power.

MQM never had "control" over Karachi. But they're the best target and scapegoat because Altaf bhai's speeches make everyone think so.

The way I see it save for Imran Khan I don't think any party has a front face/ party leader that's a presentable person.

 

[Ottoman]

Now for a bit of personal opinion , MQM without Altaf Hussain might be super awesome (and it might just be the same), but MQM is with Altaf Hussain as its head and a body with that kind of head can't do much no matter how good it is...

A lot of people think Altaf Hussain is MQM. In other words, there wouldn't be a united MQM unless headed by Altaf.

I admire the MQM's stance, just like the PPP whose premise isn't wrong. Too bad both parties have gone around doing things the wrong way entirely.

 

[genious]

I heard in a speech from altaf bhai that if he steps down there will be fights,riots in every street of karachi so MQM without Bhai is incomplete.But Bhai problem is that he is wasting his day and nights abusing Army,media and everyother political party assassinating anyone who oppose them.

and the way i see it after rangers operation started karachi is looking much better from 2013.they can shutdown karachi in minutes that is some real intimidating power right there.

In Punjab not even PMLN or any other party got that type of power and they are currently ruling Pakistan.That alone tells many things about MQM power in karachi.

All in all i think MQM is a necessary evil in karachi.Establishment openly admitted they want to replace altaf bhai.

 

[shahzadfootball]

MQM never had "control" over Karachi.

How would you explain the ,"Halaat kharab ho gaye hain" calls when any incident related to MQM takes place ?

While trying to sound as neutral as possible,MQM have had somewhat major control on Karachi for quite a long period of time .And yes I agree this is because of the fact that Urdu speaking people find MQM as their sole saviors and the fact that Karachi is a multicultural hub .But,the fact that Karachi hasn't changed much in control of MQM goes out to show that MQM didn't have any long term plans for the city.Just the other day I was passing by dus number and the buildings there seemed to be as old as 50 years.

As for OP,I don't know how how many friends you have on facebook but the fact of the matter is that I've come across SEVERAL mqm supporters on FB ,illogical and senseless they may sound on the internet,but they still exist.I don't know if you watched the NA-240 (i'm not sure if i'm quoting the correct seat here) elections where there were several MQM supporters.And I agree with whoever said that MQM has highly educated people/supporter because even people from my school who come from influential background supported MQM. I'm just trying to sound as neutral as possible but in my personal opinion,I feel a lot more safe these days when Ranger have started to take out politicians from MQM .It is already apparent that ever since ranger started their operation,there has been a VAST decrease in terrorism in the city (alhamdulilah) .

I think that MQM had its chance and it used the motto of muhajir/Urdu speaking to win over Karachi.But that was it,they did not have any long term plan so Karachi is still the same 40 year old city with hardly any skyscrapers or modern infrastructure.Other party should be given a chance (certainly not PPP )

 

[Kane]

One thing i dont understand is that why MQM always use Mahajir/UrduSpeaking/Mazloom Card whenever someone takes a shit in this city... Dont even get me started about how recent events turned out to be i.e Saulat Mirza, RAW funding/training MQM etc.

 

[Benighted]

MQM wins because they still have a huge following in mahajirs. There is nothing "educated" about the people following them, though. But yeah, MQM has expert orators. Sophistry and rhetoric has seldom seen such a high as MQM has given it.

 

[Lord AvaLon]

NO
General consensus among public? What public?
NA 240 Elections were fair and they proved the point that the "GENERAL CONSENSUS" is that we NEED MQM in Karachi.
You have a very limited social exposure. VERY limited.

You sir, may be right about my very limited exposure of social media. However, my understanding is not just limited by the exposure you pointed out. The reason is I am not an inhabitant of Karachi so naturally I have to believe someone crying over split milk on media; be it print, electronic or social. And everyone I hear declare the party either terrorist or traitor (Hint: Solat Mirza case and now allegations of RAW funding etc).

 

[Lord AvaLon]

Absolutely wrong. Apart from Altaf hussain himself and their "Bhai-giri" most of the MQM office bearers are middle class highly educated individuals who are very well respected.
Also MQM's stance on alot of hot button issues is usually very logical and resonates with people. Another thing is that their political leadership has not been implicated with corruption as far as I know.
As far as I can tell, having Altaf Hussain as a leader does MQM more harm than good.

Agree that all the leaders local or national are busy trying to explain the actual meaning of Altaf Hussain but leadership always is most important. If not for the vision and commitment the party may not have been that strong today. All the party leaders understand and as far as I know respect this fact.

I dont vote for any political party, since my stance is exactly the same as inf3rn0s ...political parties in pakistan are all BS...But if I had to choose with a gun on my head, MQM prolly would be in top two.

This is what I want to know. Currently there is hardly anything left that is not added to the curriculum vitae of MQM. Why would you still vote for them? Don't you think they are too controversial among all these rhetoric of involvement with RAW, murders, anarchy in Karachi etc. Do you think they are still good for Karachi and there presence will help maintaining peace?

- - - Updated - - -

To those that live a bit far from karachi, the face of MQM is Altaf Hussain and (to put it lightly) that's not a pretty face... Plus no matter what that guy says everyone in MQM supports it and many times he then apologizes or takes back his words. Unfortunately this is true that every single political party does this, but this happens far too often with MQM.

So basically the general consensus as you go far from karachi is that MQM is pretty shitty, etc...

Exactly what I quoted, but perhaps as pointed out by a fellow it may be my perception which is built on the reviews on media. Perhaps they are good for Karachi.

Now for a bit of personal opinion , MQM without Altaf Hussain might be super awesome (and it might just be the same), but MQM is with Altaf Hussain as its head and a body with that kind of head can't do much no matter how good it is...

But at the end of the day, all parties in Pakistan (and majority in the rest of the world too) are corrupt to the core, one way or another...

Is not leader the most important person. All the credit for organizing the party and making it strong goes to the leader.

 

[Lord AvaLon]

The problem with succession in MQM is a long, hectic debate.

The entire MAHAJIR/URDU SPEAKING rights issue IS a real issue and that issue only found its saviors in MQM.
Karachi is NOT Lahore, ISB, Quetta or Peshawar. Karachi is in its true sense a multicultural hub where no one party has absolute power.
MQM never had "control" over Karachi. But they're the best target and scapegoat because Altaf bhai's speeches make everyone think so.
The way I see it save for Imran Khan I don't think any party has a front face/ party leader that's a presentable person.

Thank you!
This is what I wanted. To have the other side of picture. Do you think MQM is innocent of all the allegations they have time and tried on in media? Like Sulat Mirza, Bhatta (others do it in the name of party chanda), murders, spreading anarchy, the massacre of lawyers, involvement with RAW etc.
Secondly as you pointed out that MQM is the savior of Mahajirs, do you see them as a Nationalist party and believe in their way of politics? Is it the only party that has so far safeguarded the interests of urdu speakers?
If I correctly understand your point, all the Urdu speakers have soft corners for Altaf Hussain, believing that he is their savior. And even though they may abhor his ways, they still vote for him?

- - - Updated - - -

A lot of people think Altaf Hussain is MQM. In other words, there wouldn't be a united MQM unless headed by Altaf.
I admire the MQM's stance, just like the PPP whose premise isn't wrong. Too bad both parties have gone around doing things the wrong way entirely.

I understand the vote bank of PPP mainly comprise of people not so educated and they win their seats from interior Sindh where Bhutto is considered a saint. But Karachi on the other hand has educated people and the demographic composition hints and lower middle to higher middle class families. If their way is wrong, why would they vote for him and let them stay in power?

 

[Lord AvaLon]

I heard in a speech from altaf bhai that if he steps down there will be fights,riots in every street of karachi so MQM without Bhai is incomplete.But Bhai problem is that he is wasting his day and nights abusing Army,media and everyother political party assassinating anyone who oppose them.

and the way i see it after rangers operation started karachi is looking much better from 2013.they can shutdown karachi in minutes that is some real intimidating power right there.

In Punjab not even PMLN or any other party got that type of power and they are currently ruling Pakistan.That alone tells many things about MQM power in karachi.

All in all i think MQM is a necessary evil in karachi.Establishment openly admitted they want to replace altaf bhai.

With all the traits you mentioned above, why would it be necessary to keep an evil in the economic hub of the country? N-League though in power but doesn't seem to have a clear stance on Karachi.

 

[Leon]

I am a Mahajir and i know many who are actually afraid to say it out in public but they dont like MQM personally.

My Grandfather migrated from India to here. Basically i would want the thumb verification system here in Karachi for voting to completely accept the hold of any party in here unless its all BS. I have seen rigging in the 2013 elections with my own eyes at the center right in front of my home.

Few of my relatives think MQM is the one who has been saving all the Mahajir's asses all this time. But i beg to differ because, With a good law and order all of the lives in this city and country can be saved. Afterall we are Pakistani first more than being Mahajir or being in any other category.

It is already apparent that ever since ranger started their operation,there has been a VAST decrease in terrorism in the city (alhamdulilah) .

I think that MQM had its chance and it used the motto of muhajir/Urdu speaking to win over Karachi.

 

[Lord AvaLon]

How would you explain the ,"Halaat kharab ho gaye hain" calls when any incident related to MQM takes place ?

While trying to sound as neutral as possible,MQM have had somewhat major control on Karachi for quite a long period of time .And yes I agree this is because of the fact that Urdu speaking people find MQM as their sole saviors and the fact that Karachi is a multicultural hub .But,the fact that Karachi hasn't changed much in control of MQM goes out to show that MQM didn't have any long term plans for the city.Just the other day I was passing by dus number and the buildings there seemed to be as old as 50 years.

As for OP,I don't know how how many friends you have on facebook but the fact of the matter is that I've come across SEVERAL mqm supporters on FB ,illogical and senseless they may sound on the internet,but they still exist.I don't know if you watched the NA-240 (i'm not sure if i'm quoting the correct seat here) elections where there were several MQM supporters.And I agree with whoever said that MQM has highly educated people/supporter because even people from my school who come from influential background supported MQM. I'm just trying to sound as neutral as possible but in my personal opinion,I feel a lot more safe these days when Ranger have started to take out politicians from MQM .It is already apparent that ever since ranger started their operation,there has been a VAST decrease in terrorism in the city (alhamdulilah) .

I think that MQM had its chance and it used the motto of muhajir/Urdu speaking to win over Karachi.But that was it,they did not have any long term plan so Karachi is still the same 40 year old city with hardly any skyscrapers or modern infrastructure.Other party should be given a chance (certainly not PPP )

Bro skycrappers or modern infrastructure are the progress indicators only used by N-league. Since you are also from Karachi (guessed from your post), do you also think MQM works in the best interest of Karachi and is the savior of Urdu speaking people? Or the supporters are wrongly supporting them?