Patriotism - The most overrated virtue?

[Blastwave]

There are nations.

Not countries.

Country is a relatively new concept.

We're all nations.


Its God save the Queen

NOT

God save England or something.

 

[Spiderman3000]

Doesnt that mean leeching off the resources of another country to give them to another country? Isnt that morally wrong, shouldnt you be giving back to the country that is providing you rather than the country that failed to provide you? Just asking...

I mean contributing in an indirect way. Like, for example, like doing some research as a pakistani, therefore encouraging other talented students in pakistan.

I could give you a very good example, but since politics discussion is prohibited, I'll end it here.

 

[sshah]

You're on crack. but then again its ur 'opinion'.

You cannot define patriotism but only give your own perception of the term, a patriot doesn't need a reason to die fighting for his country, he just does it. Its not the love for the people, or the government, or the natural resources, its the love of that dirt, those grains of sand bound within the boundaries.

Patriotism is never induced into someone, it exists as a part of an ethical and moral character, and one who has nothing to die for certainly has nothing to live for either.

And the OP is confusing patriotism with an entirely different thing, I would also leave Pakistan for better opportunities of education, health care or financial security, but that in no way labels me as a little less patriotic than I am today. You cannot mix these two things up. But you can say fore example if war strikes your country, and then you leave for another country for refuge, then I would have to agree that you would be the least patriotic person on the face of this earth, but leaving your country for a better living standard in a state where it is in peace doesn't go against patriotism. Same reason I would live in UK or US or Canada, but I would never opt for a dual nationality in any country I go to no matter how many the perks,

its like when you love someone, you accept them with their perks as well as their flaws, and you do it proudly.

You know, I actually forgot to ask you, but how are you linking patriotism with ethical and moral values? Seriously?

 

[Benighted]

^ Just like pretty much everyone else links white to black here.

 

[Magma]

The concept is not stupid. The thing is, we are born in a society where people similar to us live. It is a place where we are comfortable living with our own race. And to defend and protect this civilization is patriotism.

It is not countries that are dividing us, but our races and religons.

 

[Crow]

My disjointed thoughts on this subject:

1. ITT I see some people get offended over this, and part of it maybe a disinclination to question their beliefs. (Questioning is the work of shaitan, and is antithetical to the concept of faith; a sentiment so oft repeated that it's become second nature to most of us).
2. Patriotism is useful for governments when they want you to die for some noble cause (which will bring them the position of power, among other things).
3. A country is not the same thing as a person, culture, tradition, or upbringing.
4. Abandoning your country is not the same thing as abandoning your family.
5. Everyone is patriotic to a some extent, whether it be your house, the city you grew up in, your neighborhood. It seems natural to me, to want to preserve and protect places you have been to. It only gets a bit iffy when it goes from nostalgia to viewing a country as an abstract, living, breathing entity.
6. I feel like these things exists only so that more wars can be fought in the name of pointless ideals.
7. I feel like the people in power use ordinary people as pawns in a chessboard to win the game for themselves, not for anyone else.
8. I feel like people should chill out a bit and enjoy themselves regardless for whichever country they're in. We're not so different.

This is meant to be in good spirit and I hope no one takes offense over it.

 

[DietyDevil]

Kicking you out of ur country so they can have it is what makes u patriot, thats the only reason i see

 

[Syavash]

My ideas on this:

1) Posts like your "country is providing for you" "How can you leave the country that made you what you are" If a normal person is to stop working, his country will not give a shit if he dies, you work and you get paid for it. Your family nurtures you not your country. Your country has no emotional bond with you.

2) If you don't have something (your country) to die for its a rubbish life. Ohh please, we can all do alot of good by living for whatever is worth it for us be it country, family or yourself. Dying never got any country anywhere.

3) People who do not love their country are immoral. Uuh no, nothing whatsoever to do with morality.

So its pretty obvious I don't love Pakistan? Not exactly. I do not love it so much that I would give up my life for it, or live here unnecesarily, I do not feel the need to contribute to OUR people alone, or that our people or nation is in someway superior to everyone else. But yes I do have an attachment to this place because I was born here, that is just natural in my opinion.

---------- Post added at 06:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

There are nations.

Not countries.

Country is a relatively new concept.

We're all nations.


Its God save the Queen

NOT

God save England or something.

Explain please

 

[AsadAbrar]

Patriotism is very essential for a country's development as it gives a person determination to work hard for the country resulting in development. And we Pakistanis lack in patriotism and even if we claim ourselves to be patriots, we don't act that way.

 

[refnulf]

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that there are people on here (at least in this thread!) who aren't all 'OMG PAK IS GR8TST INDIA R Abuses will lead to banS LOL PAKFAUJ4WIN PAK IS AWESOME' etc etc.

You guys <3

 

[cheesewarrior01]

Patriotism is very essential for a country's development as it gives a person determination to work hard for the country resulting in development. And we Pakistanis lack in patriotism and even if we claim ourselves to be patriots, we don't act that way.

Untrue. If anything, Pakistanis are overzealous in their patriotism. Kher let's leave specific countries out of it (especialy Pakistan) as it might offend someone.

Btw, you are saying patriotism is essential for a country's development as it makes a person work hard for his country; what exactly do you mean by working hard? You mean getting a job and working hard on that? Do you think if he didnt have any patriotism in his heart, so he wont be looking for employment? I didnt really understand this statement of yours.

 

[AsadAbrar]

Untrue. If anything, Pakistanis are overzealous in their patriotism. Kher let's leave specific countries out of it (especialy Pakistan) as it might offend someone.

Btw, you are saying patriotism is essential for a country's development as it makes a person work hard for his country; what exactly do you mean by working hard? You mean getting a job and working hard on that? Do you think if he didnt have any patriotism in his heart, so he wont be looking for employment? I didnt really understand this statement of yours.

Your first para supports my second point. Even, if we are overzealous, we don't really 'do' something good just claim to die for Pakistan if needed. When a situation does come, we do nothing.

No, like for e.g. I'm a student. If I'm a patriotic guy, the motivation factor behind me studying good will be to serve the country later by getting a good job or even getting a good name for the country by getting distinctions. However, we study for jobs.

 

[Crow]

You know what, I have no attachment with this ideal called "Pakistan"

I don't "love the dirt" or the "grains of sand".

I will never die for a stupid thing like war. It's nothing more than people corrupted with power using people to gain leverage for themselves. People who die fighting are at the very bottom of the pyramid in which the "leaders" are at the top.

I will never support any of our corrupt leaders (unless they're libertarian, which will never happen).

But this is home. It always will be. I will never find familiarity that I do here. This is my place. This is where I grew up and where I will work and make a living for myself.

Screw "Pakistan". Screw patriotism. Screw the army.
I don't give two shits about any of these things. The invisible phantoms you're fighting against are nothing more than propaganda.

Please wake up.

 

[DietyDevil]

You know what, I have no attachment with this ideal called "Pakistan"

I don't "love the dirt" or the "grains of sand".

I will never die for a stupid thing like war. It's nothing more than people corrupted with power using people to gain leverage for themselves. People who die fighting are at the very bottom of the pyramid in which the "leaders" are at the top.

I will never support any of our corrupt leaders (unless they're libertarian, which will never happen).

But this is home. It always will be. I will never find familiarity that I do here. This is my place. This is where I grew up and where I will work and make a living for myself.

Screw "Pakistan". Screw patriotism. Screw the army.
I don't give two shits about any of these things. The invisible phantoms you're fighting against are nothing more than propaganda.

Please wake up.

200% agreed...who gives a shit..not me least of all...