[OT] | GYM | Body Building -|- Workout & Exercises -|- Help & Advice

[Ashad Razavi]

Close grip bench press and dips over anything. Straight bar pulldown is a basic exercise bro. I wouldn't argue over this, but you saying CGBP is a waste of time is just a matter of opinion. Maybe it doesn't suit you. It varies from one to another. Different exercises for different bodies and mindsets

 

[Ali Man]

Some argue bench press is the best exercise for the chest, while others like Scooby argue that dumbbell flies are the best for the chest. Everyone reacts differently to different exercises so there is no best exercises for a specific muscle. Unless you can somehow provide scientific proof that decline bench press incorporates more muscle fibers than any other type of bench press, we have no way of knowing otherwise. Instead of focusing on which one exercise is the best, one should try to improvise multiple different exercises in their routine, to see what works best for them; that my friend is preference.

An exercise is only guaranteed useful if you're showing some positive results in it too, may it be over time.

I've said this before and am gonna say it just another time that, the more inclined the bench press it, it more it works the shoulders and back muscles and the harder it gets. The more declined it is, the more the weight gets drawn down to the chest muscles. Don't exactly need a scientist to prove that.

The best exercise for every muscle would always exist, but it may not always be for a specific muscle because when going into a little detail, it always affects more than one muscle. e.g. There are different kinds of push-ups, depending on how the arms are placed and how deep one goes into it, even though one may not realize it, but it also uses the entire upper body back muscles too. Sure you can do a variety of exercises, but only later on would you realize that which ones are really making a difference and which aren't.

A tricep isolation exercise is useless for triceps? Get tired lifting the bar, wut? .

Do it with a 100 pound bar/weight on it and see how you feel. The point was that you aren't concentrating on just one muscle, upon which you started the exercise in the first place. And you don't either advance in lifting when doing it.

This is very, very subjective and most certainly does not apply to most people out there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point completely. And no, your argument about my elbows hurting is not valid since they hurt during pullups and lat pulldowns as well. Weak bone structure in general.

Why would your shoulders come into play when you do rope push-downs? The movement solely involves your elbows to flex, which directly hits your triceps. Again, its a tricep isolation that hits your triceps. (Source: Triceps Pushdown Exercise Guide and Video) Again, I certainly hope I'm misunderstanding you.

Why? What part of the shoulder (socket) pulls the rope down before any specific muscle? Only after the 180 degree, horizontal to the ground angle does the triceps come into play.
But then again, it all depends on what height you're pulling it down from. Most people I see pull it down from their face, others do it from their waist and some randomly in between.

 

[Ali Man]

Close grip bench press and dips over anything. Straight bar pulldown is a basic exercise bro. I wouldn't argue over this, but you saying CGBP is a waste of time is just a matter of opinion. Maybe it doesn't suit you. It varies from one to another. Different exercises for different bodies and mindsets

Close grip bench press affects the person more than the actual results achieved from it. A normal bench works perfectly fine as your arms are close to the weight and its easier to lift. Dips are always good, but even better when weights are attached to the body or lifting a dumbbell with feet.

If straight bar pull downs are that basic, well then why don't you show me 10 reps of 45KG starting from horizontal position of the forearms, making it orthogonal to the bar and pushing it down enough to make a 45 degree angle and let me know how easy it is. We both have the same body weight, almost the same height, lets see if you could do it (If not, easier said then done bro).

 

[Yasir]

An exercise is only guaranteed useful if you're showing some positive results in it too, may it be over time.

I've said this before and am gonna say it just another time that, the more inclined the bench press it, it more it works the shoulders and back muscles and the harder it gets. The more declined it is, the more the weight gets drawn down to the chest muscles. Don't exactly need a scientist to prove that.

The best exercise for every muscle would always exist, but it may not always be for a specific muscle because when going into a little detail, it always affects more than one muscle. e.g. There are different kinds of push-ups, depending on how the arms are placed and how deep one goes into it, even though one may not realize it, but it also uses the entire upper body back muscles too. Sure you can do a variety of exercises, but only later on would you realize that which ones are really making a difference and which aren't.



Do it with a 100 pound bar/weight on it and see how you feel. The point was that you aren't concentrating on just one muscle, upon which you started the exercise in the first place. And you don't either advance in lifting when doing it.

This is very, very subjective and most certainly does not apply to most people out there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point completely. And no, your argument about my elbows hurting is not valid since they hurt during pullups and lat pulldowns as well. Weak bone structure in general.



Why? What part of the shoulder (socket) pulls the rope down before any specific muscle? Only after the 180 degree, horizontal to the ground angle does the triceps come into play.
But then again, it all depends on what height you're pulling it down from. Most people I see pull it down from their face, others do it from their waist and some randomly in between.

I can hardly agree to what you're saying, but to each their own.

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If straight bar pull downs are that basic, well then why don't you show me 10 reps of 45KG starting from horizontal position of the forearms, making it orthogonal to the bar and pushing it down enough to make a 45 degree angle and let me know how easy it is. We both have the same body weight, almost the same height, lets see if you could do it (If not, easier said then done bro).

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[Ali Man]

I can hardly agree to what you're saying, but to each their own.

More like you can 'hardly understand', lol. But it's alright, lets see how everyone progresses with time and with whatever they're doing.

 

[Yasir]

More like you can 'hardly understand', lol. But it's alright, lets see how everyone progresses with time and with whatever they're doing.

I understand what you're saying, I just completely disagree.

1) If there were 'best' exercises, all bodybuilders would be doing the same stuff at the gym. This is a generalization, simply put.

2) This logic of yours about skullcrushers/CGBP: lifting the weight, not concentrating on the muscle etc, and these exercises not being very useful; do you have any solid evidence to support this?

3) Decline being superior to all other chest exercises; do you have any evidence to support this?

4) Even if, say, an exercise works for you, your body will eventually stop responding to it. You'll eventually have to try something new to stimulate your muscles. Thus, how can there be specific exercises that are good or bad?

5) Different people respond differently to the same exercise. Some people's genetics allow specific muscles to grow faster than other people's, that does not simply the one with a smaller muscle part is doing something wrong. If you're trying to prove you're stronger at the same height/weight, there are so many factors that contribute to this, that it's just ridiculous to even compare.

Without any conclusive evidence, everything is subjective and therefore, a matter of opinion; not a fact.

Also, why must the weight be so important to you? Ego-lifting is not going to get you anywhere.

 

[ubuntu83]

Any of you know how much does a pair of 16KG Kettle bells cost?

 

[Ashad Razavi]

Close grip bench press affects the person more than the actual results achieved from it. A normal bench works perfectly fine as your arms are close to the weight and its easier to lift. Dips are always good, but even better when weights are attached to the body or lifting a dumbbell with feet.

If straight bar pull downs are that basic, well then why don't you show me 10 reps of 45KG starting from horizontal position of the forearms, making it orthogonal to the bar and pushing it down enough to make a 45 degree angle and let me know how easy it is. We both have the same body weight, almost the same height, lets see if you could do it (If not, easier said then done bro).

I'm sure you can lift that weight and I hope in time you lift more. I respect you for that weight you are pulling down on that exercise. You certainly can pull down 45kg on that whereas I can't as of now. Posture and form is my main concern. Not more weight

 

[Ali Man]

I understand what you're saying, I just completely disagree.

1) If there were 'best' exercises, all bodybuilders would be doing the same stuff at the gym. This is a generalization, simply put.

Not everyone is that knowledgeable or literate to be doing the right exercises out of the 100 or so available. It's your generalization to actually think that and negate the obvious of what I've just mentioned.

2) This logic of yours about skullcrushers/CGBP: lifting the weight, not concentrating on the muscle etc, and these exercises not being very useful; do you have any solid evidence to support this?

You want me to provide evidence for something so obvious that it speaks that 'obviousness' for itself, right..... I'd rather not stress it as you've just given your intelligence in this matter (Explained the same situation to another person and thankfully only once, and he got it, so it's just you here).

3) Decline being superior to all other chest exercises; do you have any evidence to support this?

An understatement, didn't say that and didn't portray that either. This is what I said:

I've said this before and am gonna say it just another time that, the more inclined the bench press it, it more it works the shoulders and back muscles and the harder it gets. The more declined it is, the more the weight gets drawn down to the chest muscles.

And I really donno what you took out of it....

4) Even if, say, an exercise works for you, your body will eventually stop responding to it. You'll eventually have to try something new to stimulate your muscles. Thus, how can there be specific exercises that are good or bad?

Wrong, if you get used to a certain exercise, increase the weight, you don't just leave it and start something new.

Exercises can be characterized as 'good' once they have an impact on your body and 'bad' when the opposite clearly happens. That hard to understand?

5) Different people respond differently to the same exercise. Some people's genetics allow specific muscles to grow faster than other people's, that does not simply the one with a smaller muscle part is doing something wrong. If you're trying to prove you're stronger at the same height/weight, there are so many factors that contribute to this, that it's just ridiculous to even compare.

I agree to the highlighted statement, however, the reason why I stress is that we have 'nearly' the same built, if not 'exact', so theoretically, we should be able to do the same exercise or even close to it, but its not the case for him as he clearly doesn't give his best. My statement was sound, but you just didn't see it that way.

Without any conclusive evidence, everything is subjective and therefore, a matter of opinion; not a fact.

You speak of evidence as if some writer would write you a personal book for it and as if I, myself am not worthy of evidence myself, right..... Speculation, trial and error is what I do a lot before opening my mouth.

Also, why must the weight be so important to you? Ego-lifting is not going to get you anywhere.

Body building is all about pushing the limits (of course without hurting yourself). I started like most people with lighter weights, and increased in time, it didn't happen over day. By saying that, 'jealously' is a more suitable term to use for expression, rather than ego-lifting (A really lame thing to say btw, especially to a person like me).

I'm sure you can lift that weight and I hope in time you lift more. I respect you for that weight you are pulling down on that exercise. You certainly can pull down 45kg on that whereas I can't as of now. Posture and form is my main concern. Not more weight

A person learns posture and form in the first week or so for body building and not 3-4 months. So your reason really doesn't make much sense.

 

[Ashad Razavi]

We all have our reasons. What you should say is that my reason doesn't make sense to 'you' specifically. I don't need to boast about the weights I lift and all that. It has never been my thing. But just try to be a little more polite when the other person is being nice to you.

 

[Ali Man]

We all have our reasons. What you should say is that my reason doesn't make sense to 'you' specifically. I don't need to boast about the weights I lift and all that. It has never been my thing. But just try to be a little more polite when the other person is being nice to you.

Still doesn't answer my question.

I'd like to assume that I'm talking to people that know what they're saying and not the opposite. Your reason generally doesn't make sense, hence I asked this question, for you to clear out the air.

But as you've denied even to do that, I stand by what I said and it wasn't disrespectful in any way. However, if you'd like to take it that way, well then, you surely have 'some' problem.

 

[Yasir]

Honestly man, have it your way. You can do the best exercises and follow the same routine year after year, given your 2-3 months of trial and error. Absolutely no disrespect intended. We're on two different ends of the spectrum and it's just better to keep sharing our own experiences rather than pointing flaws in other people's methods. :wink2:
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Now, back to the workouts.

I tried front squats yesterday, and god damn, were they f*cking intense. Noticed that I had to tone down the weight compared to normal squats, but it did feel very different. The posture will take some time getting used to so I'm going light on 'em for now. Don't want to mess it up.

I reached the gym 30 minutes before closing time yesterday so I had to cram everything in. Decided, what better time to do an explosive workout than today.

3x Front Squats 10-12 Reps (30 second break)
3x Lunges 20-22 rep (30 second break)
3x Leg curls 10-12 reps (20 second break)
3x Leg Extensions 12-15 reps (20 second break)
3x Crunching machines. (15 second break)
2x Calf Raises (10 second break)

All of this done within half an hour, my thighs were ready to explode. Feeling the burn today after waking up, my entire mid-to-low section has worn out.
[MENTION=38773]Ashad Razavi[/MENTION], I think we have a couple of mutual friends on Facebook; I found your profile on a friend's photo's comment section.

 

[Mohsin TK]

To anyone who thinks CGBP and skull crushers are not good exercises for triceps or not effective for them specifically , then YOU ARE DOING THEM WRONG , plain and simple .. the reason why these two exercises (excluding dips) are considered the best exercises for triceps are because they put you in a position where u can easily pile on heavier weight as compared to say pushdowns ( yeah they are called PUSHDOWNS NOT PULLDOWNS , YOU NEVER PULL WITH YOUR TRICEPS YOU ALWAYS PUSH lol ) and that is why these exercises work for everyone but then again proper form is the key with all kinds of isolation exercises otherwise you are just wasting your time and energy ... and anyone experienced enough in this field knows very well that increase in lifting weight is directly proportional to new muscle fibers getting torn which means new muscle growth ....

Ohhh and every exercise works equally well for everyone if done properly no exercise is bad , the only difference is in our bodies , everyone has different REQUIREMENTS for eg. a person with a stronger lateral tricep head and a weaker long tricep head can pile on heavier weight on a pushdown as compared to skull crushers and vice versa ..

 

[Ashad Razavi]

Still doesn't answer my question.

I'd like to assume that I'm talking to people that know what they're saying and not the opposite. Your reason generally doesn't make sense, hence I asked this question, for you to clear out the air.

But as you've denied even to do that, I stand by what I said and it wasn't disrespectful in any way. However, if you'd like to take it that way, well then, you surely have 'some' problem.

What was your question again? If I could pull down 45kg? No man, I can't. I have my workout plan and you have yours. If we both differ from each other that doesn't mean we have a problem or don't make sense. But as you said, CGBP does something to the wrist and is not effective, that was ridiculous.
Your other statement about learning the form and posture in one week? Lol, bro if you start from the beginning, it takes a long way to get there. I never said I'm still learning the form, I meant I don't tend to go heavy as of now, I'm pretty much satisfied with my progress in the past 6 months.
For example, If I'm doing bicep curls with 14kg dumbbells, I take about two seconds for one curl so that my arms and biceps start burning more than the usual. I like that specefic kind of feeling, it's more satisfying and gives a better pump. I wouldn't be able to maintain that posture if I use 20kg dumbbels until and unless I don't grow and gain more muscle. It takes time. Doing what I am today with 14kg will probably take 6-8 more months to reach 20kg. I still can lift 20 kg on bicep curls, it doesn't give me the satisfaction as I can't do it with the same posture and form. I hope you got what I meant now.

 

[maazkhan]

Well just joined. I'm quite a skinny boy with tall height which is miss sized with my mass. Now im 17.5 and thinking to join GYM but i got no time to go gotta study and job at night. So my question is if i do GYM would be health be getting better? How much would it cost to build an average exercise area for myself? Now I'm quite obsessed with my health and need to focus and i dont mind saying i would be working really hard to get in shape. Suggestion?

Sent from my IM-A850L using Tapatalk

 

[Ali Man]

Honestly man, have it your way. You can do the best exercises and follow the same routine year after year, given your 2-3 months of trial and error. Absolutely no disrespect intended. We're on two different ends of the spectrum and it's just better to keep sharing our own experiences rather than pointing flaws in other people's methods. :wink2:

Year after year? Nah, I'm not gonna be lifting forever or even for a few years. Would definitely cut it down after just 1 year.
Lifting/bodybuilding is the easy way out of making your body, I have other (better) things in mind.

To anyone who thinks CGBP and skull crushers are not good exercises for triceps or not effective for them specifically , then YOU ARE DOING THEM WRONG , plain and simple .. the reason why these two exercises (excluding dips) are considered the best exercises for triceps are because they put you in a position where u can easily pile on heavier weight as compared to say pushdowns ( yeah they are called PUSHDOWNS NOT PULLDOWNS , YOU NEVER PULL WITH YOUR TRICEPS YOU ALWAYS PUSH lol ) and that is why these exercises work for everyone but then again proper form is the key with all kinds of isolation exercises otherwise you are just wasting your time and energy ... and anyone experienced enough in this field knows very well that increase in lifting weight is directly proportional to new muscle fibers getting torn which means new muscle growth ....

Ohhh and every exercise works equally well for everyone if done properly no exercise is bad , the only difference is in our bodies , everyone has different REQUIREMENTS for eg. a person with a stronger lateral tricep head and a weaker long tricep head can pile on heavier weight on a pushdown as compared to skull crushers and vice versa ..

Excluding Dips?, Dips are the only exercise where you're actually lifting your whole body weight on your triceps. Try putting that same body weight while doing skull crushers and then let me know that which is the easy way out.

Wrong about 'piling on more weight than push/pull downs'. Reason: You can actually even use your body weight as a support when pushing/pulling down, in skull crushers you can't. And as I said before, you're actually lifting the weight while laying on the horizontal bench using a couple of muscles, before you start the 'actual' skull crusher exercise, bring it down at an angle using the triceps.

Do you know how to hold a preacher bar? Using that grip on the straight bar, well you're actually 'pulling' it down, not 'pushing'. And both terms can be used depending upon the height from where you perform the exercise. 'Pushing' usually emphasizes after the waist, whereas 'pulling' is usually before, but not always, as I said, depends upon your grip. And I'm sure you knew that (Not).

Lastly, when you tear a muscle fiber, it pains like 'F', and a person can easily also be hospitalized, and you talk of it as being a normal thing in bodybuilding where new muscles grows like magic, lol.

What was your question again? If I could pull down 45kg? No man, I can't. I have my workout plan and you have yours. If we both differ from each other that doesn't mean we have a problem or don't make sense. But as you said, CGBP does something to the wrist and is not effective, that was ridiculous.
Your other statement about learning the form and posture in one week? Lol, bro if you start from the beginning, it takes a long way to get there. I never said I'm still learning the form, I meant I don't tend to go heavy as of now, I'm pretty much satisfied with my progress in the past 6 months.
For example, If I'm doing bicep curls with 14kg dumbbells, I take about two seconds for one curl so that my arms and biceps start burning more than the usual. I like that specefic kind of feeling, it's more satisfying and gives a better pump. I wouldn't be able to maintain that posture if I use 20kg dumbbels until and unless I don't grow and gain more muscle. It takes time. Doing what I am today with 14kg will probably take 6-8 more months to reach 20kg. I still can lift 20 kg on bicep curls, it doesn't give me the satisfaction as I can't do it with the same posture and form. I hope you got what I meant now.

Only that answered my question.

Well just joined. I'm quite a skinny boy with tall height which is miss sized with my mass. Now im 17.5 and thinking to join GYM but i got no time to go gotta study and job at night. So my question is if i do GYM would be health be getting better? How much would it cost to build an average exercise area for myself? Now I'm quite obsessed with my health and need to focus and i dont mind saying i would be working really hard to get in shape. Suggestion?

Sent from my IM-A850L using Tapatalk

You can live a healthy life as long as you go for a walk, eat healthy food and jog once in a while. GYM isn't exactly the answer to it, most people do it to build muscle mass or strength.

 

[Blastwave]

Guys guys guys.

Keep it quiet and like calm the f down mmmmkay?

 

[maazkhan]

But i need to gym and want to gym, recommend me some machines with would help me.

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[Mohsin TK]

Excluding Dips?, Dips are the only exercise where you're actually lifting your whole body weight on your triceps. Try putting that same body weight while doing skull crushers and then let me know that which is the easy way out.

Wrong about 'piling on more weight than push/pull downs'. Reason: You can actually even use your body weight as a support when pushing/pulling down, in skull crushers you can't. And as I said before, you're actually lifting the weight while laying on the horizontal bench using a couple of muscles, before you start the 'actual' skull crusher exercise, bring it down at an angle using the triceps.

Do you know how to hold a preacher bar? Using that grip on the straight bar, well you're actually 'pulling' it down, not 'pushing'. And both terms can be used depending upon the height from where you perform the exercise. 'Pushing' usually emphasizes after the waist, whereas 'pulling' is usually before, but not always, as I said, depends upon your grip. And I'm sure you knew that (Not).

Lastly, when you tear a muscle fiber, it pains like 'F', and a person can easily also be hospitalized, and you talk of it as being a normal thing in bodybuilding where new muscles grows like magic, lol.
.

When i said excluding dips this was exactly what i meant ( it is the only bodyweight exercise that hits the triceps as hard as CGBP and skull crushers ) but i specifically mentioned "excluding dips" because anyone who actually does tricep dips for his tricep routine knows very well that it is in no way an isolation exercise for the tricep like all bodyweight exercises it is a COMPOUND MOVEMENT ( bet you didnt think of that did u ) so it cannot be compared to freeweight exercises for triceps like CGBP and skullcrushers (which are isolation exercises)

Wrong about piling on more weight on CGBP and skull crushers as compared to pushdowns (and using bodyweight for pushdowns) ??? hahahahahahaha noobs like you make my day
let me explain that to u now AND READ CAREFULLY THIS TIME .. the sole reason of an isolation exercise (pushdowns are the very definition of an islolation movement) is to ... wait for it ....... ISOLATE a single muscle group rather than hitting multiple number of muscle groups in one workout (which is a very different type of workout strategy usually recommended for beginners and people training for strength only)

Now as uve said yourself that it is harder to push more weight while lying on a horizontal bench rather than standing and just pushing downwards on a road where u can use ur shoulders and what not and gravity also comes into play because ure actually applying the force in a downward motion so you tell me which of these movements is gonna put more load on your TRICEPS ONLY ?????????

Ohhh and i superset dips with skull crushers 3 sets of 10 each without any rest just back to back alternating one set after another ( beat that )
and if u knew the proper way to do skull crushers you wont be complaining about other muscles coming into play as skull crusher is hands down the best isolation movement for the long head of the tricep (if you know how to do it that is)

The grip you mentioned is actually called a reverse grip pushdown ( which you obviously didnt know otherwise you wouldnt be explaing by preacher bar example like a noob lol ) and that grip also works alot on the forearms which is bad for a tricep routine plus it mostly only works the medial head of the tricep which gets worked in almost all other tricep exercises so this exercise is basically useless as a main focus for triceps its a good movement as a finisher exercise . ohhhhh and no matter how you hold the bar (reverse grip pushdown is only one example) when it comes to triceps you are always pushing the weight , if you dont agree with me than prove me wrong .

And you are right i didnt know about below the waist or above the waist bullshit because there is just NO SUCH THING ... relate this theory of urs to CGBP im very interested in expanding my knowledge

And yes muscle fibers do get torn under heavy load exercises but those are micro tears which do not require you to get hospitalised lol instead those micro tears are the reason why our body reacts to these kind of exercises by seeing that incidence of muscle damage as a threat to the body it repairs itself in such a way that if the same amount of load was to be given to that particular muscle again it would be prepared for it or in other words the muscle gets stronger and bigger after those micro tears have been recovered from .

Ohhh and yes it does work like magic if you know how to workout and have a good diet proper rest and FAVOURABLE GENES

 

[Yasir]

@Mohsin TK, leave it man, it's not worth it. At this rate, it'll get personal soon and we'll derail completely off-topic.