MULTI The Future of Gaming Industry

[LeGenD123]

Important trends:-

1. Microsoft PC gaming promotion initiative such as Games For Windows service seems to have flopped.

2. Sony PlayStation 4 outgunned Microsoft Xbox One in sales by a huge margin so far. More here.

3. Valve Steam have emerged as a multi-billion dollar online platform for PC gaming industry in the 2st century and is often credited for securing the future of PC gaming industry. It will soon launch SteamOS to promote user-friendly PC gaming experience on big-screen for FREE globally.

4. AMD have launched Mantle API as an alternative to Microsoft DirectX which is more gaming-friendly then the latter. Several game developers have started to support Mantle API.

5. Games publishing giants such as EA and Ubisoft have launched their own online PC gaming distribution & support services such as Origin and Uplay respectively as alternatives to Steam from Valve, carving their own niches within PC gaming industry.

--- --- ---

Personal remarks:

IMO, Microsoft have lost its way in the gaming industry, backstabbed PC gaming industry with Xbox project and is now taking flak on all fronts. Interestingly, Microsoft have recently hinted on its renewed focus for PC gaming industry but it remains to be seen what Microsoft is planning for PC gaming on long-term basis. Unfortunately, Microsoft have history of making empty promises and half-assed initiatives for promoting PC gaming in the past but this will not hold forever. As a PC software giant, Microsoft should be ashamed of backstabbing the very platform which made it a multi-billion company in the first place.

For morons in Microsoft: Enjoy the karma, its payback time. You don't bite the hands that feed you.

 

[CerebralTiger]

The thread title should've been "The future of PC Gaming, and why PC gamers hate Microsoft", because that's mostly what you're discussing in the OP.

And on that front, you missed the fact that MS is working on DX12, which should bring the same benefits that Mantle offers (i.e. reducing CPU overhead, draw calls).

I don't get the hate for MS. They make the Windows operating system for the PC platform. They bring you new graphical features via DirectX advancements. What more do you want them to do? Granted, they could've done a much better job with GFWL, but they've ended that initiative now and several of its games have been migrated over to Steam.

Also, what's wrong with entering the console business? They did pretty well with the X360. Why do you feel like MS owes you anything beyond the OS (and its subsequent support) that you paid for?

You're citing the PS4 winning the sales war against the Xbox One as a big failure for MS. Here's another way to look at it: the Xbox One is selling better than the X360 did in its first year. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it? The PS4 is doing better, but that doesn't mean MS can't get its share of success in the console space.

 

[JANARIOO]

so wat else is new xD and i mean new

 

[genious]

MS will fail this generation if they dont put out new IPs and awesome games on Xbone soon Sony will rule console war 3DS will keep saving Nintendo and STEAM will be become real father of PC crowd which will bring new things and games from everywhere to PC.

 

[TrueCoolGuy]

The thread title should've been "The future of PC Gaming, and why PC gamers hate Microsoft", because that's mostly what you're discussing in the OP.

You expect anything different from someone who exclusively listens for one platform's news?

Microsoft's been pretty crappy since the beginning of the current gen, but I see one major difference in them that's good. They're more dedicated towards gaming and creating exclusives for their platform. Though how they're going about it is pretty lame at times, like Rise of the Tomb Raider. But at least they're trying, and hopefully they'll get the hang of it, and bring more competition to the table against Sony and Nintendo.

Sony's the majority favorite right now. And they're doing some cool stuff outside of creating exclusives and making an easily accessible platform for indie devs. Stuff like SharePlay and Streaming features. They've yet to bring out some solid titles that'll sell their system (Destiny might be one of them but it wasn't an exclusive), but I feel like they'll be coming out in hoards sooner or later. I mean, it is Sony. Vita's still a brick tho.

Nintendo's been slowly creeping up to the lime light recently. Their new attitude towards creating games for a more core audience and their dedication to making awesome and fun exclusives is starting to grab people's attention. They're gonna be a better competitor in the market, at least that's my prediction.

 

[LeGenD123]

The thread title should've been "The future of PC Gaming, and why PC gamers hate Microsoft", because that's mostly what you're discussing in the OP.

This thread is intended to provide a glimpse of existing and emerging trends in Gaming Industry holistically encompassing failures and successes of different ventures by companies involved. My personal remarks aside, the main points representing some major developments in the Gaming Industry are neutrally constructed and the title represents them.

Fellow members are welcome to mention additional trends that I overlooked.

And on that front, you missed the fact that MS is working on DX12, which should bring the same benefits that Mantle offers (i.e. reducing CPU overhead, draw calls).

Right....After Mantle API came in to the picture. I wonder what stopped Microsoft from making this effort before. Too little too late, I think.

I don't get the hate for MS. They make the Windows operating system for the PC platform. They bring you new graphical features via DirectX advancements. What more do you want them to do? Granted, they could've done a much better job with GFWL, but they've ended that initiative now and several of its games have been migrated over to Steam.

Making OS is enough now? Microsoft once used to be one of the greatest supporters of PC gaming industry and gave PC gamers some hit titles that sold millions of units and added to Microsoft's revenue generation. Then Microsoft shifted its focus to console based gaming industry and PC gamers felt abandoned.

Also, what's wrong with entering the console business? They did pretty well with the X360. Why do you feel like MS owes you anything beyond the OS (and its subsequent support) that you paid for?

Neglecting PC gaming industry is the biggest mistake Microsoft ever made, a company which is ironically a PC software giant.

You're citing the PS4 winning the sales war against the Xbox One as a big failure for MS. Here's another way to look at it: the Xbox One is selling better than the X360 did in its first year. Doesn't sound so bad now, does it? The PS4 is doing better, but that doesn't mean MS can't get its share of success in the console space.

As more and more people are adopting in-door gaming activities with passage of time, this would impact sales of gaming devices accordingly as well. Sheer statistics do not represent some behind-the-scenes ground realities properly.

Success of Xbox 360 totally blindsided Microsoft to its obligations towards PC platform. I am glad that "lack of anticipated success" of Xbox One have shown Microsoft the mirror.

 

[faraany3k]

XBOX is in huge trouble. One year old console forced to strip essential hardware and selling its Collecter special editions for $150 less.

This is how bad it is. And why the initial sales are larger then previous gen is because it was the longest delay between console gens. You dont need to be financial guru to read what is happening. That is why MS is giving free games and stuff.

 

[manigamer]

a new smaller GPU etc from xbox one announced aswell ! rumoured but we all know slims come sooner or later

 

[CerebralTiger]

Nintendo's been slowly creeping up to the lime light recently. Their new attitude towards creating games for a more core audience and their dedication to making awesome and fun exclusives is starting to grab people's attention. They're gonna be a better competitor in the market, at least that's my prediction.

Exactly! We're talking about the important trends in the industry, and Nintendo's platforms weren't even given a passing reference lol. Here's a trend worth talking about - even with the weakest hardware, the Wii U currently has the best line up of exclusives released during the last year.

Right....After Mantle API came in to the picture. I wonder what stopped Microsoft from making this effort before. Too little too late, I think.

But you're bringing it up as an issue after MS has already announced DX12. And unlike Mantle, which is currently only for AMD GPUs, this solution isn't hardware dependent. MS wasn't really threatened by Mantle. Mantle works within the DX11 wrapper, and isn't a stand alone API.

The reason MS is able to make DX12 available now is because of their development of the Xbox One API, which is a variation of DX11. The improvements are now being carried forward into the PC space.

Making OS is enough now? Microsoft once used to be one of the greatest supporters of PC gaming industry and gave PC gamers some hit titles that sold millions of units and added to Microsoft's revenue generation.

Making operating systems is their primary business as far as the PC domain is concerned. Microsoft Studios had very few established PC franchises, such as the "Age of" series or its various flight sims. It's not like they were making tons of amazing PC games that you are now missing out on. They only started to take games development seriously after entering the console business. And even then, it took them multiple generations to build a respectable number of studios.

As more and more people are adopting in-door gaming activities with passage of time, this would impact sales of gaming devices accordingly as well. Sheer statistics do not represent some behind-the-scenes ground realities properly.

The only ground reality here is that Xbox is still a profitable business. MS earns a lot of money via Xbox, not only in the form of hardware but also via Xbox Live.

Success of Xbox 360 totally blindsided Microsoft to its obligations towards PC platform. I am glad that "lack of anticipated success" of Xbox One have shown Microsoft the mirror.

Microsoft's own poor decisions (DRM, Kinect, price, weaker hardware) led to its current market position with the Xbox One. It didn't happen because they neglected the PC as a gaming platform.

 

[Necrokiller]

I don't get the hate for MS.

Their attitude towards PC as a gaming platform?

2005 - We care about PC gaming, Longhorn (Vista) to usher in modern PC gaming with "Tray and Play"
Vista launches with none of the stuff MS promised, Vista itself sucks the ass of a thousand camels.


2006 - MS: Don't Count PC Games Out
MS announces GFWL and how utterly amazing it will be, suckers everywhere rejoice in the eventual ass reaming they don't know is coming yet.


2007 - MS continues PC push
MS launches GFWL...and it has a $50 a year fee, and they announce a whole slew of games to include Shadowrun with cross platform play and Gears of War 1! What are you paying for you ask? Jank ass software that crashes and has the most unintuitive updating system known to man. Load a game, game says you need update. Signs you out, downloads update, you jump back in...oh GFWL client has a update too! signs you out, downloads up date and you log back in...

MS will shortly thereafter disband Ensemble because MS feels that they're (MS) moving in a different direction! But don't worry we tots <3 you PC gamers.


2008 - MS: PC gaming is A-okay
Yea we've looked at some money pie charts and can see that PC gaming brings in billions in revenue. Here is our open letter to how awesome PC gaming is and our promise to support it! We finally put some new titles up on GFWL! Oh and we got rid of the $50 a year fee for GFWL, see we're serious about PC gaming! If that's not a sign of commitment, I don't know what is!


2008 - MS: PC gaming is not dead!
Look at this event we're throwing for PC gaming, you think we'd throw this if we didn't truly care about it?! Look at these games that will be on GFWL. We <3 PC gaming. You want fixes for GFWL issues? We'll look into that.


2008 - MS bolsters PC gaming with all new Games for Windows Live!
Hey gaiz remember those GFWL client issues you were having...well we didn't fix those per say but....here is the same shit in a slightly newer skin! PROGRESS


2009 - MS: PC gaming still a priority for us!
Okay gaiz look, this time we're serious about our upcoming push in PC gaming. It's so vital to us at MS that we give the PC our love and support!


2010 - MS: "We're doubling down on PC gaming
By doubling down we mean we're keeping this shittastic GFWL client around because! We might even throw an update at it to fix the problem of game saves being randomly deleted or rendered worthless...maybe.


2010 - MS Launches Games for Windows Marketplace
Hey gaiz, we're making GFWL even better because it's now called Games for Windows Marketplace. Everything is brand new and easy to use, anonymous journalists have even said it's better than Steam. We had 3 interns and a janitor work on this, so you know we're committed!


2010 - MS: Windows 8 is going to relaunch gaming!
Hey gaiz, MS again. With Windows 8 we're totally going to put our full weight behind PC gaming just like we promised back in 2006! Pls be excite.


2012 - MS: We won't ditch GFWL!
We're committed to PC gaming and we absolutely think GFWL is the best play to get PC games and play with others. Our client is awesome....ly bloated and deletes shit randomly, but that's really one of the charms of PC gaming that we captured! It's a balanced experience! Hope you rike!


2013 - MS to discontinue GFWL
Hey gaiz new manager here, so like a bunch of your games might stop working come 2014...but that's okay! We expect there to be transitions as we build out new investments, but we remain committed to bringing first party gaming services and games to Windows for years to come. We will share more details in the future!


2013 - MS promises core first party games coming to PC
We're so committed we swear!

Discontinuing GFWL is merely a baby step towards being taken seriously. Even EA's Origin is more respectable than GFWL.

Here's a trend worth talking about - even with the weakest hardware, the Wii U currently has the best line up of exclusives released during the last year.

Nintendo has never had much of a following on PG (discussions, OT, hype etc) and excluding Bayonetta 2, not much has changed with regards to the type of exclusives they have to offer.

 

[TrueCoolGuy]

Nintendo has never had much of a following on PG (discussions, OT, hype etc)

Doesn't mean they're not worth talking about. Especially when the discussion involves the gaming industry as a whole.

 

[LeGenD123]

But you're bringing it up as an issue after MS has already announced DX12. And unlike Mantle, which is currently only for AMD GPUs, this solution isn't hardware dependent. MS wasn't really threatened by Mantle. Mantle works within the DX11 wrapper, and isn't a stand alone API.

I find it ironic that Microsoft decided to market DX12 as a low level API after the release of Mantle API from AMD. Was Microsoft sleeping earlier or it didn't realize that someone might attempt to break its monopoly at some point in regards to PC rendering related matters?

Read this article to understand the fact that Microsoft haven't been honest in its obligations to improve PC gaming experience as per demands of the developers: Microsoft hints that DirectX 12 will imitate Mantle, but AMD insists its API has a bright future | ExtremeTech

If Mantle API had not happened, Microsoft would have continued to ignore the demands of developers to introduce a genuine low level API for PC platform. This is an indication that monopoly isn't a good thing and that competition drives innovation.

Also, my understanding is that Mantle API is a standalone API, it functions separately from DX on PC. You can learn more about Mantle API from this whitepaper (PDF file).

The reason MS is able to make DX12 available now is because of their development of the Xbox One API, which is a variation of DX11. The improvements are now being carried forward into the PC space.

What about Xbox 360 API? Isn't it low level? Or you really believe that Microsoft is innocent in this matter?

Making operating systems is their primary business as far as the PC domain is concerned. Microsoft Studios had very few established PC franchises, such as the "Age of" series or its various flight sims. It's not like they were making tons of amazing PC games that you are now missing out on. They only started to take games development seriously after entering the console business. And even then, it took them multiple generations to build a respectable number of studios.

Microsoft develops lot more then operating systems; if you haven't paid attention to this fact yet, I recommend you to do so. As for gaming related contributions, Microsoft was taking PC gaming industry seriously back then and those hit franchises were outcome of such initiatives. When Microsoft shifted its focus to console gaming industry, it neglected its initiatives for PC gaming industry and alienated pc gamers in this manner.

Based on the track record of growth in popularity of DirectX API among developers and hit gaming franchises, many had high expectations from Microsoft to uplift PC gaming industry. Unfortunately this didn't happen because of shift in focus towards console gaming industry and game developers themselves were left to take this initiative for PC gaming industry. Microsoft have not been making smart decisions by not exploiting revenue generation avenues on all fronts; morons literally abandoned PC gaming industry at such a time and in such a manner that it had bleak future if Valve had not come to its rescue.

The only ground reality here is that Xbox is still a profitable business. MS earns a lot of money via Xbox, not only in the form of hardware but also via Xbox Live.

For mega-corporations, being profitable is not enough or sufficient measure of success, breaking records and pushing boundaries are. Xbox One is not competing well with competition, period. Also, as PC gaming industry continues to grow with large number of PC game releases per year, expect lot of people to not bother with Xbox for fulfillment of gaming needs apart from only those who are crazy about Xbox exclusives.

Microsoft's own poor decisions (DRM, Kinect, price, weaker hardware) led to its current market position with the Xbox One. It didn't happen because they neglected the PC as a gaming platform.

This is not my point. Microsoft needs to take PC gaming industry seriously, revenue generation from Xbox project is not going to be enough for Microsoft if it intends to retain its position as a leading software developer in the future. Competition will toughen in upcoming years with alternatives being introduced by other companies to break Microsoft's monopoly in PC software and gaming industries.

 

[Necrokiller]

Doesn't mean they're not worth talking about. Especially when the discussion involves the gaming industry as a whole.

Yeah, I don't disagree with that. But I don't think a whole lot of people would be offended by that either

Nintendo's been slowly creeping up to the lime light recently. Their new attitude towards creating games for a more core audience and their dedication to making awesome and fun exclusives is starting to grab people's attention. They're gonna be a better competitor in the market, at least that's my prediction.

Wrt targetting a core audeince, I can only think of Bayonetta 2 which is radically different from what their target audience is used to. Even that isn't technically 'created' by Nintendo. One game does not constitute a trend. The rest is the usual stuff expected of Nintendo.

 

[CerebralTiger]

Their attitude towards PC as a gaming platform?

But would PC gamers really hate them any less if they hadn't churned out all these pretentious PR statements over the years regarding their support for the platform? Perhaps, but that's something they'll probably continue to do, given their overall stake in the PC market as the developer of Windows. I mean, they can't just flat out say "No, we don't support PC gaming!" when 99% of the games out there run on an OS and API they develop. Besides, they do bring some of their Xbox exclusives to the PC (e.g. Alan Wake, Fable, Project Spark, and plenty of MS published indie titles).

Nintendo has never had much of a following on PG (discussions, OT, hype etc) and excluding Bayonetta 2, not much has changed with regards to the type of exclusives they have to offer.

Well, if we're talking about 'trends' as the OP suggests, which I'm assuming isn't limited to PG or Pakistan, then Nintendo's platforms are certainly worth mentioning.

Wrt targetting a core audeince, I can only think of Bayonetta 2 which is radically different from what their target audience is used to. Even that isn't technically 'created' by Nintendo. One game does not constitute a trend. The rest is the usual stuff expected of Nintendo.

Itagaki's (Ninja Gaiden I and II creator) next game i.e. Devil's Third, is a Wii U exclusive scheduled for 2015.

Read this article to understand the fact that Microsoft haven't been honest in its obligations to improve PC gaming experience as per demands of the developers: Microsoft hints that DirectX 12 will imitate Mantle, but AMD insists its API has a bright future | ExtremeTech

Mantle isn't really going to exist in the long-run when it only works for AMD GPUs. DX12 is a platform independent solution that also ensures backward compatibility. You do realize how important these two factors are, right?

Even the article you linked to paints a pretty dull future for Mantle in wake of DX12:

And if Mantle is ultimately subsumed by DirectX — so what? When I first talked to AMD about the next-generation API at APU13, the developers candidly told me that the long-term goal was to get Microsoft and the Khronos Group in charge of OpenGL to adopt a Mantle-like architecture. The entire point of Mantle was to spur game development and drive the adoption of a better standard.

Also, my understanding is that Mantle API is a standalone API, it functions separately from DX on PC. You can learn more about Mantle API from this whitepaper (PDF file).

Well, at present, Mantle is only available as part of AMD Catalyst for Windows. AMD has yet to reveal its specifications and make it an open standard, so I don't think it qualifies as a standalone API just yet. Nvidia can't take advantage of its libraries even if it wanted to, because they simply aren't there. It's all hidden away within the AMD driver.

What about Xbox 360 API? Isn't it low level? Or you really believe that Microsoft is innocent in this matter?

The X360 wasn't an X86/X64 platform. The Xbox one is.

As for gaming related contributions, Microsoft was taking PC gaming industry seriously back then and those hit franchises were outcome of such initiatives.

Such as? Give me the names of said hit franchises.

For mega-corporations, being profitable is not enough or sufficient measure of success, breaking records and pushing boundaries are.

The X360 didn't break any sales records, yet it was successful. The Xbox One, on the other hand, did surpass the X360's year one sales. It will do well as it develops a library of worthy exclusives. Take a look at the PS3's year one sales - they were pretty bad. Then look at where it stood at the end of its lifecycle - pretty close to the X360.

You need to look at the bigger picture. There is enough space in the console market for both PS4 and Xbox One to co-exist and perform well. That's all that matters.

Also, as PC gaming industry continues to grow with large number of PC game releases per year, expect lot of people to not bother with Xbox for fulfillment of gaming needs apart from only those who are crazy about Xbox exclusives.

lol I don't even know what to say to this. Unfortunately for you, there are a lot of people who are crazy about multi-million dollar franchises like Halo and Gears of War.

This is not my point. Microsoft needs to take PC gaming industry seriously, revenue generation from Xbox project is not going to be enough for Microsoft in the future if it intends to retain its position as a leading PC software and game developer.

Okay, then what do you suggest MS should do? I mean, you've raised the issue, but haven't proposed a specific solution. A general statement like "MS needs to take PC gaming industry more seriously" won't do. What games/franchises would you like MS to revive/bring to the PC?

 

[TrueCoolGuy]

Wrt targetting a core audeince, I can only think of Bayonetta 2 which is radically different from what their target audience is used to. Even that isn't technically 'created' by Nintendo. One game does not constitute a trend. The rest is the usual stuff expected of Nintendo.

They made the statement a short while ago. They need time to act on it. Bayonetta 2 is a great start, more will come.

 

[Yasir Nadeem]

Mantle isn't really going to exist in the long-run when it only works for AMD GPUs. DX12 is a platform independent solution that also ensure backward compatibility. You do realize how important these two factors are, right?

Even the article you linked to paints a pretty dull future for Mantle in wake of DX12:

Mantle Doesn't Stands A Chance Against DX11 How will It Face It DX12 (Got Lower Fps Than DX11 and Quality was Also The Same (a lil Worse maybe) There Was No Difference) :tv: Comparing it with DX12 Is Meaningless. I think [MENTION=882]LeGenD123[/MENTION] was/is Saying that Microsft Isn't Creating Exclusives For PC Like It is Creating For Xbox. There Are Microsoft Exclusives Like Titanfall, Dead Rising 3, Ryse: Son Of Rome (released Recently) etc. Except Some Console Exclusives Like Halo, Forza Etc. His (LeGenD123) only Problem is That Microsoft Should Bring Console Games to PC Too Just like it Released Halo, Gears Of Wars, Alan Wake Etc. On PC.

 

[Necrokiller]

But would PC gamers really hate them any less if they hadn't churned out all these pretentious PR statements over the years regarding their support for the platform? Perhaps, but that's something they'll probably continue to do, given their overall stake in the PC market as the developer of Windows. I mean, they can't just flat out say "No, we don't support PC gaming!" when 99% of the games out there run on an OS and API they develop. Besides, they do bring some of their Xbox exclusives to the PC (e.g. Alan Wake, Fable, Project Spark, and plenty of MS published indie titles).

How many of those few titles do MS actually own the rights to? Fables showing on PC is half-assed at best, similar to Gears and Halo. Alan Wake is also a poor example considering the circumstances surrounding its release.
Its their attitude that PC gamers dislike. Similar to Ubisofts' and EA. Their shady practices are the reason why their PR statements are ridiculed, and rightly so. No one actually trusts a word they're saying.

Okay, then what do you suggest MS should do? I mean, you've raised the issue, but haven't proposed a specific solution. A general statement like "MS needs to take PC gaming industry more seriously" won't do. What games/franchises would you like MS to revive/bring to the PC?

Sole purpose of Windows OS existence isn't gaming. And DX has applications outside of gaming as well.

They need to have a presence on PC a la Steam, GoG or Origin. The Store integrated with Windows is a joke. Its shocking to say the least if you believe MS's current presence on PC as a publisher is respectable.



Sent from my XT1033

 

[faraany3k]

Yes Nintendo is relevant again by one game that is barely selling.

Fanboy logic.

 

[faraany3k]

Such as? Give me the names of said hit franchises.

Are you kidding me?

MS closed down studios like Ensemble that produced PC's best strategy franchises Age of Empire, Rise of Nations and Age of Mythology. They closed down Flight Simulator studio. They stole Alan Wake (open world), they stole Fable series.

 

[desprado]

I sense a lot hate for MS in this thread but fact remains the same that MS dominate in PC gaming through Windows and the trend will continue whether someone like it or not.