Mutual Funds?

haroonshaikh

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I have a lot of time to kill during my summer vacations . approx 2.5 months and looking forward to gain some experience in this . I do have some background of how to work with stocks but I am not familiar with the system in Pak . Just read a lot of posts on Reddit . I was wondering if you could brief me on how I could get started . I read your post above about mutual funds and username/password and investing . But I want to know from where I can get this started . Thank you :) You may PM me or write here .
Its good you are looking to learn new thing in free time rather than wasting your vacations :)

Soo starting with the funds vs stock market thing.
If you invest in a stock fund. Then your investment will go up and down with the stock market index. The returns depends upon the stock market movement. Basically funds are for those people who want to invest their money and then sit back and relax.

The real game is the stock market itself which needs some time, investment and a heart to take and bear risky decisions. Obviously this comes with a good reward.
Now i myself have not invested in stock market or traded shares directly. But its not much of a big thing.
If you are interested, you need a minimum capital of 25k to open a stock trading account. You can open your account in JS Capital OR KASB securities. both are good stock trading parties.
Now comes the point where you need to know when to buy and sell stocks. This is the thing which you need to learn. You have to know the country politics, some inside information of companies, etc.
Well for the start you can open your account with 25k, and then try trading small amounts. You will get the grip of it.

Secondly, you could PM me if you would like to meet me personally for any information
 
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sinnersaint

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Aug 11, 2009
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Its good you are looking to learn new thing in free time rather than wasting your vacations :)

Soo starting with the funds vs stock market thing.
If you invest in a stock fund. Then your investment will go up and down with the stock market index. The returns depends upon the stock market movement. Basically funds are for those people who want to invest their money and then sit back and relax.

The real game is the stock market itself which needs some time, investment and a heart to take and bear risky decisions. Obviously this comes with a good reward.
Now i myself have not invested in stock market or traded shares directly. But its not much of a big thing.
If you are interested, you need a minimum capital of 25k to open a stock trading account. You can open your account in JS Capital OR KASB securities. both are good stock trading parties.
Now comes the point where you need to know when to buy and sell stocks. This is the thing which you need to learn. You have to know the country politics, some inside information of companies, etc.
Well for the start you can open your account with 25k, and then try trading small amounts. You will get the grip of it.

Secondly, you could PM me if you would like to meet me personally for any information
Is AKD securities not good? Also, how does one know when to buy/sell stock...seems like a continous struggle compared to mutual funds...
 

haroonshaikh

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Is AKD securities not good? Also, how does one know when to buy/sell stock...seems like a continous struggle compared to mutual funds...
AKD is equally good
thats the main point, knowing when to buy and sell. Its all based on speculation. and yes its a continuous struggle.
 

sinnersaint

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BTW, since we are on this topic. Can someone please explain what does it mean when its said that stock market is negative today or it lost 100 points. Assuming your share value or NAV (in mutual fund) is 10 rupees, if the stock market goes down by 100 points, how much loss does one incur?
does someone know about this...?
 

sinnersaint

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I've a question regarding mutual funds... i need to invest some money for around 6 months (where my capital/principal amount should be safe). As per MUFAP website, Dawood Income Fund & First Dawood Mutual Fund have the best return. I'm not sure about Dawood. Any inputs plz?
 
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Rflame

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Dec 20, 2009
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Lahore
I've a question regarding mutual funds... i need to invest some money for around 6 months (where my capital/principal amount should be safe). As per MUFAP website, Dawood Income Fund & First Dawood Mutual Fund have the best return. I'm not sure about Dawood. Any inputs plz?
I have worked as a mutual fund distributor and have sufficient knowledge about mutual funds.

If you just want to invest for just six months and capital preservation is your priority, then equity/stock funds, including balanced, asset allocation, and fund of funds are not suitable for you. You are just looking to park your funds and should not be seeking high returns. Your short investment horizon, less willingness to take risk makes your risk appetite very low.

Dawood Capital Management is one of the lowest rated AMCs. Its funds invest in risky assets which may include low rated TFCs / junk bonds, illiquid stocks, etc. You should not invest in these funds.

You should invest in Low-Moderate Risk Mutual Funds. Theses include the Money Market Funds, and some Income Funds which are relatively more risky.

And I do hope that you know that the difference between Absolute and Annualized returns. On MUFAP, the returns of stock based funds are reported as absolute, while income/debt funds returns are annualized.
 

sinnersaint

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Aug 11, 2009
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I have worked as a mutual fund distributor and have sufficient knowledge about mutual funds.

If you just want to invest for just six months and capital preservation is your priority, then equity/stock funds, including balanced, asset allocation, and fund of funds are not suitable for you. You are just looking to park your funds and should not be seeking high returns. Your short investment horizon, less willingness to take risk makes your risk appetite very low.

Dawood Capital Management is one of the lowest rated AMCs. Its funds invest in risky assets which may include low rated TFCs / junk bonds, illiquid stocks, etc. You should not invest in these funds.

You should invest in Low-Moderate Risk Mutual Funds. Theses include the Money Market Funds, and some Income Funds which are relatively more risky.

And I do hope that you know that the difference between Absolute and Annualized returns. On MUFAP, the returns of stock based funds are reported as absolute, while income/debt funds returns are annualized.

Brother, I've to make some payments by year-end so instead of keeping the money in current account @bank I guess its better to invest in mutual funds. The reason for selecting low risk funds is that am not sure what will happen with the stock market as I've now been following it for a few days before Panama result was announced and its going too much up down. And investing in it now for short term when its already at 49K, not sure what's going to happen in coming days. Keeping in view this, I checked MUFAP where capital remains safe.


I've no idea about Absolute and Annualized returns. Tried to check on google baba but cannot understand. Could you please explain it in simple terms...


Now coming to bottom line...have checked Money Market and Income fund and following seems to have high returns in 180 days. Kindly advise. I think NAFA seems secure?

Money Market
Askari Sovereign Fund
NAFA Govt. Securities Fund

Income FUnd
Dawood Income Fund
NAFA Savings Plus Fund
NAFA Financial Sector Fund

On a side note as I already mentioned that stock market is now already at 49K, is it wise to invest in it now for long term or should I wait? Was waiting for market to go down after panama but it was a total shock and surprise :D
 

sinnersaint

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[MENTION=20276]Rflame[/MENTION], [MENTION=695]haroonshaikh[/MENTION]

bhai log...any help on above post plz...
 

Rflame

Active member
Dec 20, 2009
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Lahore
Brother, I've to make some payments by year-end so instead of keeping the money in current account @bank I guess its better to invest in mutual funds. The reason for selecting low risk funds is that am not sure what will happen with the stock market as I've now been following it for a few days before Panama result was announced and its going too much up down. And investing in it now for short term when its already at 49K, not sure what's going to happen in coming days. Keeping in view this, I checked MUFAP where capital remains safe.


I've no idea about Absolute and Annualized returns. Tried to check on google baba but cannot understand. Could you please explain it in simple terms...


Now coming to bottom line...have checked Money Market and Income fund and following seems to have high returns in 180 days. Kindly advise. I think NAFA seems secure?

Money Market
Askari Sovereign Fund
NAFA Govt. Securities Fund

Income FUnd
Dawood Income Fund
NAFA Savings Plus Fund
NAFA Financial Sector Fund

On a side note as I already mentioned that stock market is now already at 49K, is it wise to invest in it now for long term or should I wait? Was waiting for market to go down after panama but it was a total shock and surprise :D
It wasn't really a shock and surprise. If you go to the NCCPL website, you can see who the major buyers and sellers in the market are on any particular day. If you look at 19-Apr-17, you will see that the companies and mutual funds (the institutions) were major buyers that day. I have heard that the decision in favor of the government was somewhat expected, therefore many many players took positions leading up to that. I have also heard that the govt. made major govt institutions like NIT (Its the only govt. controlled / public sector AMC), govt pension funds, etc. to buy into the market in order to support it. That's why the market was up around 700 pts the day before the decision. My old company also had many clients convert into/buy equity funds. But still, it was a risk. Sometimes you have to bet against the market sentiments in order to make good returns.

The market is currently trading above 49,000 pts. It is having some trouble breaching the 50,000 psychological barrier / resistance level. Personally, I would wait till the market reaches around 48,800 or below, or wait a couple of months to look at the whole JIT scenario before investing in equity.

I am not directly involved in financial markets anymore so I am not the right person to give you advice. If you are really interested in going into equity markets and have the risk appetite for it, I would suggest opening an account with a good broker. That is the direct approach for investing in equity. Otherwise, if you are interested in Mutual Funds, I would advise you to consider investing through a mutual fund distributor. MUFAP has a section for distributors and you can look at it.

If your money is currently sitting in your current account, then you should really consider investing it. What you can do is, you can invest in low risk Money Market/Income Fund right now and then when you think the time is right, you can convert the investment into equity funds; that is if you want to bear the risk.

Finally, if you are looking at returns, then you really should know the difference between annualized and absolute returns. You can't interpret and compare the historic performance of different assets without knowing the difference.

Simply put, annualized return is the return per year. For example, if an income fund past 180 days historical return (annualized) is 6%, then that means that the fund has actually returned around Rs. 3 (3%) on a Rs. 100 investment. The annualized return / return per year is 6%, i.e 3% * 365/180. The actual calculation is more complex than this. Go here or use google if you are more interested. Return of some assets are sometimes annualized in order to easily compare their performance/returns, as they can be held for different periods of time.

Absolute return is the actual return you have earned. If the past 180 Days actual return is 6%, then this means you have earned Rs. 6 on a Rs. 100 investment overt the past 180 days.

On MUFAP, you can't compare annualized return and actual returns of different fund categories for periods less than 1 year (365 days). If you want to compare returns, compare the past 365 days returns (last column).
 

deltree

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Jun 8, 2008
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AOA Brothers...

Anyone here aware of mutual funds industry? I checked the MUFAP website and it seems that AKD is the best performing in stock funds in the 365 days. So, any comments/inputs/advise please?
Buy it if you have to on the day some bad news arrived. I did the same thing and invested at the peak this year (which wasn't a savvy decission - buy when the worst of news has happened in the day - in fact buy on a day when a huge bomb blast occurs, yes sounds bad but thats how these decisions should be taken)....I am in negative returns since then. But Mutuals are for longer window, 2-3 years atleast. So buy and forget. Now the advantage of the akd fund opportunity fund is simple. Considering it has yielded well in the past, when things go down maray say mara bhi it should do above the bank annual yield. P.S I myself invested in AKDOF after much deliberation.
 
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sinnersaint

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Buy it if you have to on the day some bad news arrived. I did the same thing and invested at the peak this year (which wasn't a savvy decission - buy when the worst of news has happened in the day - in fact buy on a day when a huge bomb blast occurs, yes sounds bad but thats how these decisions should be taken)....I am in negative returns since then. But Mutuals are for longer window, 2-3 years atleast. So buy and forget. Now the advantage of the akd fund opportunity fund is simple. Considering it has yielded well in the past, when things go down maray say mara bhi it should do above the bank annual yield. P.S I myself invested in AKDOF after much deliberation.
how did you find AKD compared to other mutual fund companies? I did not find them professional or maybe the guy I was dealing with was not. So, am thinking now of not investing any more in future with them. Maybe with NIT or NAFA as they seem professional.
 

sinnersaint

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Since we are on the topic of finance. Has someone here got the State Life insurance? And how do they calculate their returns...since I've read/heard that they pay 3-4 times of your premium amount at the end of your policy term.
 

deltree

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how did you find AKD compared to other mutual fund companies? I did not find them professional or maybe the guy I was dealing with was not. So, am thinking now of not investing any more in future with them. Maybe with NIT or NAFA as they seem professional.
Professionally very well. I was dealing with Lahore office, khi office may be different. There's one thing you need to know, AKD is still on the desk of folks that decide where to take the markets, so called stock market big wigs involved in insider trading, word is they apparently meet every week to decide the fates of the market. It won't hurt to invest with them in the long run.

- - - Updated - - -

Since we are on the topic of finance. Has someone here got the State Life insurance? And how do they calculate their returns...since I've read/heard that they pay 3-4 times of your premium amount at the end of your policy term.
I had several packages pitched to me, did the math, is half of what you'd get with investing directly into psx or a top notch mutual even for the most risky product they have...the 0's make it sound great which it isn't. Did a long term calculation on where I would stand if I took either options.
 

deltree

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how did you find AKD compared to other mutual fund companies? I did not find them professional or maybe the guy I was dealing with was not. So, am thinking now of not investing any more in future with them. Maybe with NIT or NAFA as they seem professional.
If you have a appetite for this I would say invest in the stock market yourself. Use these guys to understand what steps to take: Markets Floor - Pakistan - Home | Facebook paid service but you're going to be paying management fee to mutual fund too so this should work out better in long term. If I had not been bound by real estate investments lately I would have gone this route. Or I could suggest that DHA City new scheme (balloting will happen soon, pay whatever the market own rate is get hold of whatever small plot you can get) if not go with asf plots, ballotting is done their files will be available later this month pay whatever you have to in terms of own and try and hold even the smallest plot possible. There's a new road being constructed that goes from DHA to DHA City (http://dhatoday.com/wp-content/uplo...tlisted-For-Malir-Expressway-Construction.jpg) this road will change everything, it will be the answer to naysayers even like myself who thought wahan kaun jayayga! Asf plots and the new dha city plotting is across the road. They won't be platinum like actual dha city plots but will certainly be gold nonetheless. I have lived 30 years in Karachi and have seen things grow expensive in front of me. We held a plot in DHA Phase 6, bought in 1994, I won't go into details but I can tell you at the price we bought it for and at the price it is at currently I can calculate 11900% increase in PKR value. The pound was at 50rs than. It's at 135 now, let's assume it hasn't devalued by much, than ball park our currency has devalued by only 170%, let's say 200%. Rest of the math you can do for yourself plus if it's DHA city then naam hee kaafi hai. Make whatever sacrifices you have to make, to get in on this opportunity.
 

sinnersaint

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I had several packages pitched to me, did the math, is half of what you'd get with investing directly into psx or a top notch mutual even for the most risky product they have...the 0's make it sound great which it isn't. Did a long term calculation on where I would stand if I took either options.
hmm don't understand what you mean by 0's ? If its possible could you please share with me the calculations as well, it will help me do the maths.


The only good thing about state life insurance is the risk coverage...
 

deltree

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hmm don't understand what you mean by 0's ? If its possible could you please share with me the calculations as well, it will help me do the maths.


The only good thing about state life insurance is the risk coverage...
I dont have them as such...by 0's i mean when they say 10 lacs par 20 lacs of whatever its all about the zeros at the end of the figure that makes it look it attractive....problem is when you break it down in percentage terms and compare with other options you will realize how the figure is unimpressive. Just find the percentage difference between the amount that you will pay and the amount you will get at the end of the period you decide with them. That percentage terms will hardly come to 20-25% and this is in the most aggressive of plans others not so much.
 

sinnersaint

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[MENTION=4219]deltree[/MENTION] regarding asf project, I got to know by someone that the project is failed and the people whose name even appeared in the plot list are returning the files to asf. any news/idea about this?
 

deltree

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@deltree regarding asf project, I got to know by someone that the project is failed and the people whose name even appeared in the plot list are returning the files to asf. any news/idea about this?
Fazaia was failed because PAF announced they had nothing to do with the project. ASF Housing is still backed by the ASF management, you will notice them being there at every event and giving interviews and what not. It's up to you, I would suggest if you feel unsure, try to find a likeminded individual you can trust get hold of the dha city files that will be ballotted soon, lot's of opportunists sell immediately after first installment. If budget doesn't allow it try and acquire a dha multan file which is newly launched, ballotting is going to happen soon. At least then you can feel safe about your investment as DHA is here to stay.
 

sinnersaint

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BTW, can someone recommend a good brokerage house from where once can start with minimum investment?
 

Syavash

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BTW, can someone recommend a good brokerage house from where once can start with minimum investment?
A bit too late but well...


I'd recommend the brokerage house I work at but we only take institutional clients. I'd say go with JS (Jehangir Sidiqqui), they do not charge any commission for the first 6 months, so you save a bit there. Other than that, all houses are virtually the same in regards to trade execution, fees etc.
 
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