Calling out all the technical guitarists

[Cerberus]

Posted on Ultimate guitar as well and quoting same

Hello guys

I bought a small guitar (34.5inch) in January which was easy to fret except for 3rd string 1st fret.
but it was small. so i sold it and bought a bigger one in used . around 40inch in size


Now i m facing issues with it
even after tuning it to EADGBE . Its much harder to fret even easier A D chords
almost double effort is required than my previous one


1st three strings (EBG) give fret buzz on higher frets.
1st string = 10th fret slight, 11th fret highest. 12th slight. 13th onward fine
2nd string = 12th fret moderate. 13th highest fine onward
3rd sting = 12th fret moderate


I searched for truss rod but my guitar doesnt have that. no hole in neck or under sound hole. But thats no solution for higher frets as per my internet research but will make fretting easy (I guess!)




Few pics indicating its out of shape

arrows indicate body of guitar is curved inside

 

[NaNoW]

It seems like the strings are hitting the neck due to the angle at which the saddle is lifted, cause bridge looks fine..how are the strings at the top bridge and neck..btw I know stuff about electrics mostly..... [MENTION=4033]Bad Mofo[/MENTION] might know more stuff

 

[Bad Mofo]

I don't know a lot about acoustic guitars, but I'll offer whatever help I can.

As far as I do know, first off, the length of the guitar itself. I think guitars are measured in scale lengths. That's the length from the nut till the bridge. Fender Strats are 25.5 inches long, Gibson are 24.75 inches long, and PRS Guitars use the midway 25 inch length. Most acoustics are around the 24-25 inch length, again depending on the make.

Anyway, you seem to be describing two problems. One, fretting at the lower frets is hard. That is the case with most acoustic guitars, as the action of the guitar and the string gauge make it harder to fret. Could be that the height at the nut itself is too high.

The other problem, the buzzing around the 11th fret which disappears after the 13th fret is an issue with the neck. It's curving outwards. And you are right, a little truss rod adjustment could fix the issue. If there isn't a truss rod at either end of the neck, well, that means it doesn't have one. In which case, sorry, I'm out of ideas.

I wasn't any help at all, was I?

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One more thing I noticed after posting the last reply; do you tune using a tuner? The bridge seems to be under a lot of tension, seems to be coming off the body. Could be a bad build, but also could be that you're tuning too high, and that's putting too much pressure on the guitar.

That would also cause the neck to warp a little. Also, it would make the whole thing harder to fret.

Just wondering.

 

[Cerberus]

Thank you bad mofo
1. Actually I saw online stores measuring guitar top from neck to bottom of body. so I measured that way
2. Yes, you are right, this guitar got thicker strings than my older one. I wanted to lower the action both on saddle and nut but i m worried that might worsen fret buzzing
3. yes there is a slight curve. could that be due to humidity issue? As i bought from my cousin who used gas heater 24/7 in his room this winter. Also area between the bridge and where neck ends going inward as directed in picture in OP (top sinking)

Could loosing strings and leaving guitar that way solve this problem? or I myself might open it up and straighten it

 

[Rip Uzair]

Well, yes the quality of the guitar is poor(notice 1)The strings cutting the bridge after coming out of pin hole. 2)The fret board is tearing off the neck. 3) The neck joint(with the body) is poor. 4) The saddle looks too shallow.)

Now, getting it repaired would be of no use in my opinion because the material used isn't good. + a good repair might even cost more than the guitar itself.

To keep using this guitar, I'd suggest using a smaller gauge strings(a set of 9's if you can. or at best 10's). What this would do, is reduce the string tension for the tuning you use; this in turn would pull on the bridge less so that it might not rip out + it would cut it less. This would also reduce the neck curve, because your nut has moved forwards a lot; as you can see in the picture of the neck joint where string action is higher on nut side and lower towards the bridge; which is the opposite of how it should normally be. + Low string tension=less pressure required to ring a note.

2nd, if you can't tune by ear, use a tuner that uses a mic. For example, Gtuner for android or APTuner for windows(there are many more for all the platforms.). However if the string tension is still too high, you might want to tune down a half step, or even a full step.

3rd, get a small sheets of any material(wood/card/paper/plastic etc) and put it underneath the saddle to raise it a little bit. I think about 1-1.5mm would be fine. Or if you can get a cheap new saddle, install that instead of stuffing things underneath.

Also just do a small test to see how much the neck is curved. To do it, you must press on first fret on low E string(the thick one), and then also press on the fret where the neck joins the body(14/15th fret). Then look at the fret in middle of these two points(which probably would be around 8th/9th frent. And then tell me how high is the string from that fret(i.e from top of the metal part). You must note this height while you have simultaneously pressed both 1st and 15th frets. A height greater than or equal to 1 mm means the neck/nut is curved too much towards the front(too much neck relief) and thus you need to reduce string tension, or increase truss rod tension(which you can't, so strings are your option). If it is less than or equal to 0.3mm, it is curved backwards too much(too little relief) and opposite needs to be done, which I don't think is the case.

EDIT: 1) The distance from nut to saddle is all that matters, because that is what determines the spacing between frets, and how taut a string of particular gauge needs to be to produce a specific note.
2)Your saddle is already too low. Lower than it should be. The high action is due to neck curve.
3) The curve is but is not due to humidity issue. Certain kinds of glues that put the bridge to guitar top and fret board to neck and neck to body and be cracked/broked with varying temperature/humidity. But in your case, it could very well be due to string tension. + Solid wood is not used in guitars commonly found locally. So it cannot expand/shrink with changes in humidity. Beside even if it was solid wood(which it is not), it should have expanded because of increased humidity at your place and thus buldge outwards not sinking as you say(I however can't see if its sunk of not)

 

[Hesab Magsi]

Guitar quality is totally bad,this is a very common issue in bad quality guitars,get a good Yamaha and live happily.

Dont try to fix it or spend more money on it as it wont get in shape.the neck and bridge totally looks out of shape,i also think u are using higher guage strings.

 

[Bad Mofo]

Humidity can ruin a guitar. So can changes in temperature. It's wood, it expands and contracts when it comes in touch with nature. Your cousin did the guitar no favours by putting it near a heater. The wood everywhere has probably warped in ten different ways.

Messing with the nut isn't advisable. You might lower the action near the head by grinding down the nut where the strings set in, but its risky (could lead to an uneven setup and might produce a lot more buzzing).

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You need a truss rod to make any meaningful adjustments to it. Tuning down won't really magically fix the neck, although it might make it better.

I'd recommend selling this guitar off. The way it is. Get something for it. Save up and get another one. Some guitars can be a lost cause. Sorry buddy!

 

[neox3d]

Just sale this guitar and get a good one. humidity is a wood killer and electronics killer for that matter. I had a guitar like this once, many years ago, I sold it and bought a used yamaha. Its served me well for some years and then someone borrowed it and broke it. Anyway, I think what others have said before is best, sell it off.

 

[Cerberus]

Sellings seems like fine idea, i will post it on olx
but i have seen where humidity control gives guitar original shape

and how about opening it ap and re-glue it. I can spend 1k if it become fine. otherwise I ll sell it add a some money for a better one.

 

[Rip Uzair]

Chances of it going bad soon after fixing are very high. So, getting a new one is the better idea. If you can afford, getting any original Yamaha or Washburn guitar would be a good choice.

 

[The Suspect]

Hey bro, i am playing heavy metal guitar for over 1 and a half years. So i just want to tell you that there is no problem with your guitar's neck, the buzz sound comes out because the strings are not properly pressed on the fret. And when I was new on the guitar I also had the same buzzing from my guitar. But as time went on, i practiced and my buzzing gone away.
Remember two things:
1) Press the string on the fret tightly (it requires practice and then you will be perfect?
2) Press the finger on the center of the fret not on the fret line.(explained in the pic)

 

[Cerberus]

I know that thing . fret buzz if not pressed correctly. I faced that with my 1st guitar which i bought brand new
i thought its faulty guitar but it was me. got over that in 2 days.
i am pressing it perfectly its guitars neck issue. action is higher in center of neck compare to start and ending
all signs blame humidity

 

[Cerberus]

Well i am glad i got more technical answers here than on UG

 

[The Suspect]

Well i am glad i got more technical answers here than on UG

No problem buddy. If you have any questions regarding guitar, you can ask me any time.

 

[Cerberus]

while we are at it
any tried Beatles Centre for parts and and online dealing with em
i need capo, string set, and strap

 

[Rip Uzair]

Not them, but I've bought stuff from ionaudio(they offer cash on delivery too), v-sel music and hi-volts. Prices vary a bit with every shop, but I never got any problem with them.

 

[The Suspect]

while we are at it
any tried Beatles Centre for parts and and online dealing with em
i need capo, string set, and strap

Beatles Centre are the best dealers. you buy anything from them blindfolded. Go on for your accessories in beatles. Good luck.

 

[The Suspect]

And don't mess with you're guitar's neck. It'll gonna cause problem to you're guitar's sound.

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Hey Cerberus, don't you like heavy metal music?

 

[Cerberus]

And don't mess with you're guitar's neck. It'll gonna cause problem to you're guitar's sound.

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Hey Cerberus, don't you like heavy metal music?

its bent in center but i m using humidifier only.
Nope not much to heavy metals

 

[The Suspect]

its bent in center but i m using humidifier only.
Nope not much to heavy metals

ok. I was wondering if you like heavy metal than I could've taught you more.

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Posted on Ultimate guitar as well and quoting same

Few pics indicating its out of shape

It's not out of shape buddy, it's perfect. You can show it to beatles guyz and they'll tell you the same thing.