Do we have free will?

AsadAbrar · Oct 13, 2013

The Quran says everything happening in our lives in already decided by Allah(predestination) but it can be changed by Allah if we pray to him(dua).

One thing, I would say here(that our Pak Studies teacher told us when we were discussing this topic in class) is that maybe something we want in our life is in our predestination but we only get it if we strive hard for it? This logic appeals to me.

Keyboardcowboy · Oct 13, 2013

Everything that we do is because of our free will, if free will did not exist then there would be no concept of good deed or bad deed. It was satan's free will that he did not bow, but there are and there will still be situations where our free will does not matter call it good/bad luck/fate/destiny or whatever, we are just helpless which reminds us of a higer power.

Sent From Starship Enterprise NCC-1701

Nauman 360 · Oct 13, 2013

munsifb said:
Many a times I have thought about the choices I have made in life. Like everyone else I also thought about making different choices in the past.

But to think of it, in the past I did not know the outcome of my choices (which I do now) , given similar circumstances same mental status, physical status, weather condition, family , friends, blah blah...., basically same variable set, I think I would have made the same exact choice.
So my question to you-

do you think free will is an illusion?
do you think everything is determined?

or
you think we are the masters of our life and every choice in it.

Share your thoughts.

To put it simply No, free will is an illusion. we are biological machines created, influenced and shaped by the surroundings, which is shaped by its own surrounding and so on...and we don't know how far out this goes.
If I was born in your place at the same time with your genes with perfectly the same surrounding guess what! i'd not be similar to you, I'd BE you. that's how individual we really are... many and insignificant like grains of sand on a beach, with no control over anything.. we are just the universe itself observing itself.

but i'd rather go thinking I choose to do what I choose to do and not over complicate things... which again is the result of billions and billions of events preceding the moment where I know I don't have control over anything, yet keep the mentality that I do have control over at least some things, which I don't.

mansoor93 · Oct 13, 2013

Since this is a gaming forum and not a religious one, let me answer your question in that reference.

We have played many games with multiple endings, Mostly the endings are good one and bad one. But the thing is the developer doesn't tell us which ending to go for. He has left it to our free will, how we want to play it. The good actions will lead you to a good ending and the bad actions will lead you to a bad ending.

This explains that the actions we do, aren't determined and we have free will over it. but the consequences of those actions are already determined with every possible permutation. With His supreme, overwhelming power, He closely watches us, and in a way beyond our imagination, He has complete awareness and sovereignty over all our intentions and deeds.

God's relationship to the world is like that of an artist to his work—for example, that of a painter to his painting. The work of art is dependent on the artist for its origination, but after the artist has completed his job, the charm and attractiveness of the painting remain independent of the artist; if the artist leaves this world, his brilliant work will still remain.

So the answer of your questions:
No, Free will is not an illusion.
Everything we do isn't determined. But the consequences of what we do is 100% determined.
Yes we are the masters of our life and Every choice in it.

PS: I apologize if i offended anyone by comparing The Almighty Allah with some geeky nerds. but that was the best i could do without getting into religious technicalities.

munsifb · Oct 13, 2013

Gizmo said:
^^Too much religion, not enough independant thinking. :ninja:

I agree there is so much religion in this thread. Why don't you enlighten us what do you think about free will as an independent thinker? I will like to know your answer too.

munsifb · Oct 13, 2013

AsadAbrar said:
The Quran says everything happening in our lives in already decided by Allah(predestination) but it can be changed by Allah if we pray to him(dua).

One thing, I would say here(that our Pak Studies teacher told us when we were discussing this topic in class) is that maybe something we want in our life is in our predestination but we only get it if we strive hard for it? This logic appeals to me.

Forgive me for asking this noob question as you are saying everything is already decided by Allah so he surely knows that I will pray to Him

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mansoor93 said:
Since this is a gaming forum and not a religious one, let me answer your question in that reference.

We have played many games with multiple endings, Mostly the endings are good one and bad one. But the thing is the developer doesn't tell us which ending to go for. He has left it to our free will, how we want to play it. The good actions will lead you to a good ending and the bad actions will lead you to a bad ending.

This explains that the actions we do, aren't determined and we have free will over it. but the consequences of those actions are already determined with every possible permutation. With His supreme, overwhelming power, He closely watches us, and in a way beyond our imagination, He has complete awareness and sovereignty over all our intentions and deeds.

God's relationship to the world is like that of an artist to his work—for example, that of a painter to his painting. The work of art is dependent on the artist for its origination, but after the artist has completed his job, the charm and attractiveness of the painting remain independent of the artist; if the artist leaves this world, his brilliant work will still remain.

So the answer of your questions:
No, Free will is not an illusion.
Everything we do isn't determined. But the consequences of what we do is 100% determined.
Yes we are the masters of our life and Every choice in it.

PS: I apologize if i offended anyone by comparing The Almighty Allah with some geeky nerds. but that was the best i could do without getting into religious technicalities.

Game developer doesn't know what will the ending but acccording to Islam Allah knows our ultimate fate what we do is already decided ( maybe I am wrong about this but thats what I heard)

On Topic--

Also, if god determines the outcome , what's the point. Back to square one , don't you think.

munsifb · Oct 13, 2013

Zeus MK said:
a common misconception which leads many to believe in 'fate'/'qismat'..
but i don't think it is so..
i believe in ALLAH, the master/cherisher/sustainer of the world(s)
ALLAH has given us choices to be chosen by us.. what ever we shall sow is that we shall reap in hereafter,
their is no predetermination accept for the things ALLAH has promised in quran and things like death..
99% are up to us.. the prove of this is that ALLAH does 'justice', only the sins of the sinner shall be accounted for, the sins the sinner "did" because he also had a choice not to do it
it's so logical.. basically this is the meaning of our test over here, if every thing in our test was predetermined then their would not be any need for the test and for what purpose would their be heaven or hell.
ALLAH watches over his creation, he is the ultimate savior and he is the watchful protector.. that's what i believe but only ALLAH knows best.

According to you Allah is not all knowing then? He does not know what choices we will make in the future?

AsliSarmachar · Oct 13, 2013

Now I see it man, thanks for opening my eyes @munsifb

EternalBlizzard · Oct 13, 2013

AsadAbrar said:
The Quran says everything happening in our lives in already decided by Allah(predestination) but it can be changed by Allah if we pray to him(dua).

One thing, I would say here(that our Pak Studies teacher told us when we were discussing this topic in class) is that maybe something we want in our life is in our predestination but we only get it if we strive hard for it? This logic appeals to me.

Basically i think many people confuse these two things,

it depends on us what we want to do, like, we want to live a good life according to the principles of Islam or not... it depends on us... This choice has been given to us... its not PREDETERMINED.... BUT Allah knows what we will choose or what we will become.... .... SO whatever is happening, NOT ALL OF IT, is predetermined.... some of the choices has been given to us....

That's why if i remember right i heard that there were two types of fate one which is changeable and another one which is not...... but i don't know correctly...

So if we see from this pov then what your teacher said makes sense... i.e for e.g having a prosperous life is in your fate but if you don't work hard you won't have it

So it's like a choice, you want to live a prosperous life or not its upto you.... ( sorry if the e.g sounded lame cuz im not good at giving examples :lol: )

shahzadfootball · Oct 13, 2013

We are the Master of our life however our parents take our free will and make use follow rules set by them as well

to make life even worst ,you have no say either

Ottoman · Oct 13, 2013

If you have belief in Allah, the belief that He is just is part of the faith.

Some of the responses in this thread are very impressive. Over and out.

Flame1132 · Oct 13, 2013

that answer is given by Hazarat Ali (RA) .. u can lift one feet .. but not the other at one time .. that is the amount of free will u have and about that u will be asked about at judgement day ..

HaiderSangi · Oct 13, 2013

I read the title as "Do we have free wifi?" :lol: :sm:

AlienX · Oct 13, 2013

Life is decision making, The better decision making skill you have, the more you have your life in your hand.

About free will, It's your decision to live your own life or somebody else's.

Shary Bhallu TC · Oct 13, 2013

I believe it is complete free will to us. God knows what I will do, but he has given me the choice to do what I want. God knows that I will continue to write this message, and will press submit. At this point, I don't know if some glitch would make the reply illegible (due to some error) or perfectly legible, but God knows the outcome. Lets see what happens when I click submit, as per my own free will...

Edit: Perfectly legible. Again, it was my choice to click edit and insert this paragraph in it. If I wanted, I'd have ignored it...

AsadAbrar · Oct 13, 2013

Eternal Blizzard said:
Basically i think many people confuse these two things,

it depends on us what we want to do, like, we want to live a good life according to the principles of Islam or not... it depends on us... This choice has been given to us... its not PREDETERMINED.... BUT Allah knows what we will choose or what we will become.... .... SO whatever is happening, NOT ALL OF IT, is predetermined.... some of the choices has been given to us....

That's why if i remember right i heard that there were two types of fate one which is changeable and another one which is not...... but i don't know correctly...

So if we see from this pov then what your teacher said makes sense... i.e for e.g having a prosperous life is in your fate but if you don't work hard you won't have it So it's like a choice, you want to live a prosperous life or not its upto you.... ( sorry if the e.g sounded lame cuz im not good at giving examples :lol: )

As, I said our choices (i.e. striving hard) makes way for something or the other. You just said that in different words.

- - - Updated - - -

munsifb said:
Forgive me for asking this noob question as you are saying everything is already decided by Allah so he surely knows that I will pray to Him

- - - Updated - - -

Game developer doesn't know what will the ending but acccording to Islam Allah knows our ultimate fate what we do is already decided ( maybe I am wrong about this but thats what I heard)

On Topic--

Also, if god determines the outcome , what's the point. Back to square one , don't you think.

Umm, I guess we have some limit of free will as well.

Shary Bhallu TC · Oct 13, 2013

^
How I think of it is that, if I am in trouble, and expect a good outcome, I start praying to God and try to rectify the situation from my end as well. But what I don't realize is that God already knows what is going to happen before I start praying, that is, everything would be fine because I will start praying... He does not interfere with me praying or not, that depends on me.

This whole situation is like a very deep reverse Schrodinger's cat experiment... And requires some deep thought to grasp the concept, as I think it happens.

Again, it was my free will to write this message. Though God knew beforehand what I would write.

AlienX · Oct 13, 2013

The more complicated this thread becomes, the more free will you lose. That's how life is.

Analysis Paralysis - Analyzing a problem too much will end up you not being able to solve it.

ubuntu83 · Oct 13, 2013

Eternal Blizzard said:
That's why if i remember right i heard that there were two types of fate one which is changeable and another one which is not...... but i don't know correctly...

Yeah to types of Taqdeer. One is Mubram (Cannot be changed) and the other is Muallaq (can be changed)
Details can be found here ===> Islamic viewpoint of destiny (Taqdeer)
and here ===> http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/3726131

Raza7154 · Oct 13, 2013

first decide what you mean by free will.... if you mean the free will to act as you will, then ofcourse you have complete free will.... what's pre-determined or not isn't any of our concern.... if i choose to pick up a gun and shoot the guy next to me, im acting out of my own free will.... looking at it from another perspective, you might say "god decreed that that person will die by my hand and so everything happens with the will of god".... but then why is there any form of judgement? if i kill someone because god decreed it, will i go to hell for it? or will i say to god, "i only did this because you willed it to be so".... did satan not bow in front of Adam because he chose not to? or did he not bow before Adam because God did not will it to be so.... this is another one of "those" questions....

Do we have free will?

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