Sony PlayStation 5 : Play Has No Limits

JKhan · Nov 8, 2020

Controller seems nice with all the new features baked in, but sticking to 30 fps still feels a bit jarring.

RTX on a budget has its limitations I guess.

CerebralTiger · Nov 8, 2020

To put things into perspective, RTX performance when not on a budget (tested by Necrokiller's favorite Alex):

Even in DLSS performance mode with an internal resolution of 1080p and the lowest available RT setting, it's not possible to get a consistent 60fps on an RTX 3090 equipped PC in Watch Dogs Legion. Miles Morales on PS5 does a pretty respectable job running at native 4K with RT reflections at a consistent 30fps.

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

Native 4K with RT (even at 30 FPS) is hella impressive for a $500 machine. This applies to both consoles.

These machines are pushing effects above their weight class rather successfully.

JKhan · Nov 8, 2020

So it seems we went from 120 -> 60 -> 30 now as long as the RTX effects are on.

OK, carry on.

Frankly, nobody is questioning the utility of the consoles here, but you can stop with the lame justifications. Those who can afford a 3080/ 3090 don't see it otherwise. The amount of effects Legion is pulling, I'd like to see either of the consoles to pull something even remotely close to that right now. They might down in the future, when there's a mid-gen refresh, but right now I highly doubt it.

Necrokiller · Nov 8, 2020

JKhan said:
So it seems we went from 120 -> 60 -> 30 now as long as the RTX effects are on.

OK, carry on.

Frankly, nobody is questioning the utility of the consoles here, but you can stop with the lame justifications. Those who can afford a 3080/ 3090 don't see it otherwise. The amount of effects Legion is pulling, I'd like to see either of the consoles to pull something even remotely close to that right now. They might down in the future, when there's a mid-gen refresh, but right now I highly doubt it.

A better compromise could be 1440p/60 with ray tracing but looks like at the end of the day all developers would rather "waste resources" on 4K pixel counts. Its even more weird because insomniac is chasing native pixel count AND ray tracing, both of which have been labelled "waste of resources" in the past. Now, suddenly, its impressive.

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

WD Legion is coming to the consoles too, we'll know in a few days how comparable its RT preset is, but even if it runs the Medium RT preset, the best commercially available PC GPU is hovering in the low 40's as well. The fact that a $500 machine is running a similar game with a stable performing 30 FPS (which is always better than a fluctuating frame rate unless you have a Freesync/Gsync display) is commendable.

Outside of RT, most games we have seen for the new gen are doing 60 (and 120) FPS a lot more commonly now than the last console generation.

These are facts, not lame justifications.

Now of course if you're getting a $1500 GPU, it will perform better than the consoles .. like it really shouldn't be a "gotcha" if a $1500 GPU + $xxxx CPU computer runs things better than a $500 machine.

CerebralTiger · Nov 8, 2020

RT reflections is the main taxing component of Legion's graphics, and as I already said, you don't even get a stable DLSS 4K (i.e. 1080p)/60fps with RT set to Medium on an RTX 3090 running on PC, let alone 1440p/60fps. Miles Morales is already an example of an open world game that is more impressive in just about every way possible. Sure, there are some compromises, such as the lack of secondary reflections. Similarly, Legion uses reflection probes to cover large buildings.

I don't even care about RT personally. But to expect the PS5 to be able to run an open world game with RT reflections at 4k and 60fps lol. How about sharing a video of an open world PC game doing the same.

Chandoo said:
These are facts, not lame justifications.

But have you seen the amount of effects Legion is pulling? lol

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

RE: Miles Morales:

Digital Foundry sure do think the game does a great job in both modes, RT and 60 FPS, especially considering it being a launch title. Things will only improve with time. Look at PS4's launch lineup and then look at TLoU2, its a borderline generational leap.

From ray tracing to performance mode, Insomniac and PS5 blow us away.

That we have such an ambitious example of ray tracing right at launch is a really good sign for the future - things can only get better from here, and I can't wait to check out Insomniac's very own Ratchet and Clank

The ray traced reflections are a real game-changer and look remarkable, but that smooth 60fps is also appealing. At least both modes deliver in full.

It's kinda Ubisoft's folly that they're enforcing a RT/30 FPS mode only for WD Legion on PS5/XBSX. Ideally they (and pretty much any dev) should let the user decide between Fidelity and Performance. Some people may prefer the RT effects, some may prefer additional performance.

JKhan · Nov 8, 2020

I personally think wd legion went a bit overboard with rtx features and seems kinda rushed. Future titles might improve upon this, but as I said earlier, Sony should focus more on fluidity instead of fidelity, their new controller at least demands that much.

So who's getting this at launch here?

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

Unfortunately not me, but @CerebralTiger (and a few other users on PG ) are getting theirs on launch.

Major Aly · Nov 8, 2020

CerebralTiger said:

After seeing this the stance changed from the amount of effects Legion is pulling (wow damn!) to thinking personally Legion went overboard with RTX features and feels rushed....

Lol.

Necrokiller · Nov 8, 2020

JKhan said:
Sony should focus more on fluidity instead of fidelity

Yeah, Miles Morales is a cross gen game and also releasing on PS4. Ratchet and Clank would likely trade ray tracing for higher fluidity. How common it is for developers to offer 60fps modes after the cross generational transition, and later half of the cycle when the hardware starts to show its actual potential, remains to be seen.

JKhan · Nov 8, 2020

Major Aly said:
After seeing this the stance changed from the amount of effects Legion is pulling (wow damn!) to thinking personally Legion went overboard with RTX features and feels rushed....

Lol.

Your brain cells must've evaporated after seeing such "incredible" RTX effects on the console.

You're welcome to get your fix of "Nut November" as you see fit.

Carry on (Y)

JKhan · Nov 8, 2020

Necrokiller said:
Yeah, Miles Morales is a cross gen game and also releasing on PS4. Ratchet and Clank would likely trade ray tracing for higher fluidity. How common it is for developers to offer 60fps modes after the cross generational transition, and later half of the cycle when the hardware starts to show its actual potential, remains to be seen.

I forgot how easy it is to trigger fangasms amongst the loyalists here

Necrokiller · Nov 8, 2020

JKhan said:
I forgot how easy it is to trigger fangasms amongst the loyalists here

You should've seen how much ray tracing was downplayed here when it was only available on PC by the same people who are advocating for it now

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

Necrokiller said:
Yeah, Miles Morales is a cross gen game and also releasing on PS4. Ratchet and Clank would likely trade ray tracing for higher fluidity. How common it is for developers to offer 60fps modes after the cross generational transition, and later half of the cycle when the hardware starts to show its actual potential, remains to be seen.

Ratchet has the same 2 options.

RT 4K/30 or lower/dynamic resolution 60 FPS. We don't know if the 60 FPS mode removes RT yet.

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart Offers Ray-Tracing, 60FPS

Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart will feature visual modes that include ray tracing and 60FPS, but which modes include what isn't clear.

gamerant.com

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
RT reflections is the main taxing component of Legion's graphics, and as I already said, you don't even get a stable DLSS 4K (i.e. 1080p)/60fps with RT set to Medium on an RTX 3090 running on PC, let alone 1440p/60fps. Miles Morales is already an example of an open world game that is more impressive in just about every way possible. Sure, there are some compromises, such as the lack of secondary reflections. Similarly, Legion uses reflection probes to cover large buildings.

I don't even care about RT personally. But to expect the PS5 to be able to run an open world game with RT reflections at 4k and 60fps lol. How about sharing a video of an open world PC game doing the same.

But have you seen the amount of effects Legion is pulling? lol

MM has some really nice implementation of RT:

CerebralTiger · Nov 8, 2020

Major Aly said:
After seeing this the stance changed from the amount of effects Legion is pulling (wow damn!) to thinking personally Legion went overboard with RTX features and feels rushed....

Yet another case of a PG relic getting PM'ed for defending. Now excuse me while I condense some brain cells off of all those reflected NPCs

Chandoo said:
Ratchet has the same 2 options.

Yeah, it's not limited to cross-gen games. Ratchet, Demon's Souls, Returnal are all PS5 only games that will feature a 60fps mode.

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

I heard your cries and requests, so I have got my first Vast Look into the PS5 BC level of performance. Want to know about Sekiro, Days Gone, Jedi Fallen order, Ghost Of Tsushima and more, this is the video for you. And what about that The Last Guardian ;-)

Part 2 will be up shorty as split up to get info to you as quickly as possible, more to cover and discuss yet. Be sure to leave your requests of BC tests below in the comments.

If you enjoy the content on the channel and site, then please consider sharing it where possible and appropriate and if you can please support my work on Patreon:-https://www.patreon.com/user?u=2632056 Thanks For Watching. Please Like & Subscribe and leave comments below Follow on twitter :- https://twitter.com/N_X_G

Chandoo · Nov 8, 2020

The PS5 BC program seems to be very impressive. Not sure why Sony's marketing department isn't advertising these things as heavily as MS is.

AC Unity:
Original disc version without patch is mostly 60 FPS with some drops. 99% of game play locks at 60 FPS with heavier drops during cut-scenes

Until Dawn:
Game ran with an unlocked frame rate, now mostly 60 FPS, averages 58 FPS or above but can have some drops to mid 50's.

Days Gone:
Received a patch for 60 FPS, seems to stick to it extremely well. No other enhancements, resolution and visual effects are the same.

The Last Guardian:
Now runs at a pretty solid 60 FPS.

Ghost of Tsushima:
Received a patch to run at pretty much locked 60 FPS at 1800p CB.

Sekiro:
Fully locked 60 FPS.

Star Wars: Jedi Fallen Order
Runs at fully locked 60 FPS, but dynamic resolution drops can sometimes drop resolution to below 1080p (but frame rate never buckles)

Sony PlayStation 5 : Play Has No Limits

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