MULTI Linus: Dualshock 4 "is the BEST game controller"

CerebralTiger · Jul 12, 2020

Necrokiller said:
As a game like RDR2 is proof enough, the quickest or best case scenario is not indicative of real world perceived lag. As with RDR2, we might see a lower figure depending on a different action but Kratos still doesn't feel responsive to control and data backs that up.

I don't disagree that real-world perceived lag for each in-game action is what ultimately matters. My point is that animation priority is controlled via game design, and it's the choice of some studios to run animations uninterrupted so as to not have them look janky. Some games use physics-driven inertia to simulate realistic character movement, and that further adds to input latency. Engine latency, on the other hand, isn't for design related reasons and entirely depends on the rendering pipeline.

Necrokiller said:
Destiny is considered to be the best feeling 30fps shooter and on Xbox One the firing lag is 96ms.

If NX Gamers tested UC4's firing latency as 107.6ms, it's really not a big difference either way. In terms of movement, yeah, Destiny is more responsive.

Necrokiller · Jul 12, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
I don't disagree that real-world perceived lag for each in-game action is what ultimately matters. My point is that animation priority is controlled via game design, and it's the choice of some studios to run animations uninterrupted so as to not have them look janky. Some games use physics-driven inertia to simulate realistic character movement, and that further adds to input latency. Engine latency, on the other hand, isn't for design related reasons and entirely depends on the rendering pipeline.

I'm aware of all that. But since it all manifests as perceived lag, that technicality doesn't hold much significance here. To me atleast.

CerebralTiger said:
If NX Gamers tested UC4's firing latency as 107.6ms, it's really not a big difference either way.

There's a difference of 11.6ms between UC4 (if its firing latency) and Destiny. The difference between DS4 BT and Steam Controller button is only 3.2ms. So, not even worth discussing then.

CerebralTiger · Jul 12, 2020

Necrokiller said:
There's a difference of 11.6ms between UC4 (if its firing latency) and Destiny. The difference between DS4 BT and Steam Controller button is only 3.2ms. So, not even worth discussing then.

Latency adds up. That's not what I want when choosing my controller of choice on PC. Any input action on the DS4 has a latency of 13.3ms, and that's over BT. You only mentioned the difference against Steam controller buttons (wired). The Steam controller's analog stick is 6ms slower than the DS4's analog sticks. Wirelessly, the buttons are 8.3ms slower than the DS4 via BT.

And this is not even mentioning the major difference in gyro capabilities.

Necrokiller · Jul 12, 2020

The biggest difference between the DS4 BT and bottom of that chart is still lower than 11.6ms between UC4 and Desinty, which was just termed as "not really a big difference".

CerebralTiger · Jul 12, 2020

The polling rate of the DS4's gyro alone presents a big difference (not stated in the chart above but in the video in the OP, which this thread is about).

Difference in gyro aside, regardless of how small the difference in button and stick latency is, I'd go with the controller that adds less additional milliseconds of latency on top of the game's own latency and in addition to that does all of this in wireless configuration.

Necrokiller · Jul 12, 2020

The video in the OP confirms my opinion that the right analog stick sucks for aiming.

Also confirms that these features are useless on a PS4 because they are not implemented.....system wide. Good luck using gyro in Last of Us Part 2, or Uncharted 4, or Horizon Zero Dawn, or God of War.

Thanks for pointing these things out.

Lastly, Linus is using the DS4 wired mode in the video, which induces a much higher lag on the buttons, 20.5ms to be exact..lol

CerebralTiger · Jul 12, 2020

Necrokiller said:
The video in the OP confirms my opinion that the right analog stick sucks for aiming.

How can you say for sure that the analog stick sucks for you in shooters without having tried gyro + flick stick? Linus is not trying to sell his audience on the analog stick in its traditional usage.

Necrokiller said:
Good luck using gyro in Last of Us Part 2, or Uncharted 4, or Horizon Zero Dawn, or God of War.

Oh, I'll use gyro + flick stick in Horizon, don't you worry

Necrokiller said:
Lastly, Linus is using the DS4 wired mode in the video, which induces a much higher lag on the buttons, 20.5ms to be exact..lol

He probably doesn't know wireless is actually better in this case. It's common sense that wired would be better, but the DS4 is a rare anomaly. I hope this tradition continues with the Dualsense controller.

Necrokiller · Jul 12, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
How can you say for sure that the analog stick sucks for you in shooters without having tried gyro + flick stick?

Linus is late to the party. All of this is atleast a year old now.
I've been using gyro for a long time. I don't even use it as a primary way to control camera like in Linus's video because I don't want to feel like I'm controlling every game with a make belief "steering wheel" all the time. I use it for adjusting finer aiming but use the track pad for primary camera control which is the best method in my opinion on any controller. And "flick stick" is awful because there is no way to interrupt your motion and it is limited to horizontal movement. You can only make adjustments after the fact. I found to be quite jarring than doing the same fast motions with a track pad or a mouse where I always feel more in control of my movements than flicking the stick.

CerebralTiger said:
Oh, I'll use gyro + flick stick in Horizon, don't you worry

Just not on the console the controller was designed for

CerebralTiger said:
He probably doesn't know wireless is actually better in this case.

Making his opinion not the most credible one lol

CerebralTiger · Jul 13, 2020

To each their own I guess. Have tried the Steam controller multiple times at a friend's place. The grip and rear buttons are nice, but didn't like the track pad even after messing around with its settings and presets on several occasions. Buttons are like those of the Xbox controller, and not snappy like the DS4's. Preferred using its gyro, but the track pad wasn't complementing it as well as the right analog stick does. Ah well, the thing has been discontinued now anyway. RIP. Maybe they'll do a better v2 someday.

Necrokiller said:
Making his opinion not the most credible one lol

lol it's not like wireless measurements would negate his opinion. It only makes things better.

Necrokiller · Jul 13, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
Ah well, the thing has been discontinued now anyway. RIP. Maybe they'll do a better v2 someday.

Guerrilla happens to list it as an officially supported controller, even though they didn't have to since it'll work with any game regardless. Discontinuity is not a problem for people who own it. Others can still go to their friend's place I guess. Lol

CerebralTiger · Jul 14, 2020

Thought I'd revist this thread for now lol.

My GoW results are very close to Necrokiller's. I got 258ms of movement latency when running the game at 30fps (favor resolution mode).

Meanwhile,

Movement latency for Ellie in TLOU part II was measured at 100ms.

Necrokiller · Jul 14, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
Meanwhile,

Movement latency for Ellie in TLOU part II was measured at 100ms.

Whats the fps of the captured video?

CerebralTiger · Jul 14, 2020

Necrokiller said:
Whats the fps of the captured video?

240fps, and tested on an Asus monitor.

Chandoo · Jul 14, 2020

dat wobble.

Necrokiller · Jul 14, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
240fps, and tested on an Asus monitor.

That's 2 frames laggier than Destiny's movement response. Hence, not the best feeling third person movement lol

Also, I highly doubt you play your PS4 games on a monitor. So nice try to reduce the perceived lag

techyrock · Jul 14, 2020

I never had the steam controller, Once I got very close to buying one but then didn't I have always heard mix reviews for it some love it some hate it, there's that learning curve to it so I am guessing those who don't are the one's didn't\couldnt as for other controllers I have had lots of experience with Xbox360's, DS3, DS4, and XB1's 1st gen and the one with a 3.5mm jack(it was the one I sold on PG with PC receiver)

Controller preference and what you pull most out of it depends on Games you play and the platform you are on

For instance, steam controller for sure is not Mouse replacements but there are occasions where is outshines XB1's and DS4

I have used DS4 intensively on PC using different clients even DS3 and I'd say if you have a laptop or a great PCI-E-E Bluetooth adapter (not dongle) and don't want to deal with AA batteries DS4 is best

Whenever I switch from XB1's to DS4 playing games like Forza etc not many people may have noticed it but Impulse Triggers on XB1's controller are amazing and DS4 suddenly feels like a step back but this one has its own list of cons, Xbox360 Controllers were supreme still many praise them on XB1'S, DS3, for instance, the Dpad and bumper keys on XB1's sure are clicky and feel responsive but with time they stop functioning and this is coming from a guy still having his 2010 360 controller in pristine condition

PS any PC users here were able to get a good Bluetooth adapter? I have always been on Gaming laptops or desktop Alienware and they often have amazing Bluetooth my new build thoughts unbranded mobo didn't came with Wife/Bluetooth built-in, hate dongles had a worse experience with em

Necrokiller · Jul 14, 2020

techyrock said:
Whenever I switch from XB1's to DS4 playing games like Forza etc not many people may have noticed it but Impulse Triggers on XB1's controller are amazing

Yep. They feel pretty great in Forza. Every car has a distinct feedback.

CerebralTiger · Jul 14, 2020

techyrock said:
I have used DS4 intensively on PC using different clients even DS3 and I'd say if you have a laptop or a great PCI-E-E Bluetooth adapter (not dongle) and don't want to deal with AA batteries DS4 is best

This is a very good point that hasn't been brought up in this thread. A PCI-E bluetooth adapter (or a bluetooth module that comes with the mobo) are essential to using the DS4 (or any other bluetooth controller) on PC. My experience with bluetooth dongles has been terrible.

techyrock · Jul 14, 2020

CerebralTiger said:
This is a very good point that hasn't been brought up in this thread. A PCI-E bluetooth adapter (or a bluetooth module that comes with the mobo) are essential to using the DS4 (or any other bluetooth controller) on PC. My experience with bluetooth dongles has been terrible.

Agreed and if someone is Oh No don't even compare a DS4 to Other controllers if you tested it on a dongle even if its a Logitech or Belkin one, the latency factor is very important, laptops have amazing antenna setup for Bluetooth or Branded Desktops like Alienware using Case as antenna, also earlier applications for DS4 were flawed ever since Steam's Official support its plug and play like XB1's pair your controller login to steam and you are good to go, sometimes I am even not logged in to steam and am using it for Forzathon being from MS Store not steam just a bummer is now on steam there is no lightbar option anymore or if there is I don't seem to find it

But I can assure you from the distance any sane person uses his PC you can use DS4 with no problem, For a couch setup get a console or 360,XB1 controller with receiver

CerebralTiger · Jul 14, 2020

Necrokiller said:
That's 2 frames laggier than Destiny's movement response. Hence, not the best feeling third person movement lol

I don't doubt that Destiny 2's movement is more responsive, but according to this guy, it's just 1 frame after a full stick deflection. That sounds too good to be true. Will have to download the game to check, though. Also, Lost Legacy is at 6 frames in his test, which even you believe to be higher. Will have to download that too.

MULTI Linus: Dualshock 4 "is the BEST game controller"

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Resi Evil 4 > Your fav game.

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