Should consensual sex outside of marriage be punishable by law?

[Shyber]

Put simply..
There is a FINE DIFFERENCE between a person who has to do it with you

and the person who wants to do it with you.

Huge difference, and completely different experience and output.

Buwhahaha :lol:
Heck, there's difference even between

a person who wants to do it with you

and

who wants to do it

so the purpose of this whole thread has totally changed now ...

Purpose is same, just an additional filter applied. That is, if we exclude the restriction by religion, then should the law itself forbid it? Has the authority to forbid it? We're trying to find the answer by discussing pros and cons, stuff like "Aging Economies" and elimination of longterm love for shortterm pleasure.

Well i'm completely against premarital sex because i believe a person should only have sex with his/her spouse.

Thanks for your opinion. You're probably rightly aligned in believing so and you do share considerably the same opinion I have. But why do you believe what you believe in, if it's not merely a belief from faith? If it's because of religion you believe so, then you don't have to answer. I already respect that.

If you are a father imagine if your daughter was involved in premarital sex.... yeah. You wouldnt allow it at all.

I wouldn't. You wouldn't. But there are millions who would, who actually do and they despise you and me for being so restrictive. Just like we so firmly believe that it's wrong, they so firmly believe it's not. And that's why we are pondering reasons other then religious and cultural moral guidelines.

I believe the question shouldnt be would you prefer someone that is exclusive because everyone will prefer a virgin. The question should be will you accept someone that has had other partners?

Following up with a question that would you rather accept someone who's had none?

Adultery is punishable.... Simplessss.....

don't know that there is to discuss here .-.

Removing the boundaries of religion and still being able to see the flaws only strengthens one's belief in that religion. Never stop doing that.

My humble guess is almost 50% of members are teenagers here.

I'd say 90%. Either teenagers, or having mental capacities of average teenagers.

 

[Shyber]

Originally Posted by Shyber

What if there's a world where EVERYONE does Sex ONLY for fun - all pregnancies are either prevented or aborted. We're looking at extinction then, no?

Answering to @Shyber

Bro, the last 40years before Qyamat will be pure "dark days". By dark-days, I meant k koi sharm-o-haya nahi hogi. Openly har kaam ho raha hoga. And no child will be born in the last 40 years. So, for non-muslims at that time, it will be jack-pot, i.e. Un-safe sex and no pregnancy.

I really prefer NOT to be quoted out of context.

 

[LordIT]

Following up with a question that would you rather accept someone who's had none?

If you ask me to buy a used mehran, I'd think about it a hundred times and still might not go ahead. But if you ask if I want to buy a 1967 Ford Mustang(obv used), I'll do it in a jiffy.

 

[Shyber]

If you ask me to buy a used mehran, I'd think about it a hundred times and still might not go ahead. But if you ask if I want to buy a 1967 Ford Mustang(obv used), I'll do it in a jiffy.

Yeah but would you prefer it in pristine untouched condition or (pun intended) effed up?

 

[Gizmo]

^^I really don't like this analogy TBH. Feels wrong to compare cars to people.

 

[opethian]

[MENTION=1054]Shyber[/MENTION] ...
So basically We r discussing why millions have a wrong/different opinion/belief than us or if millions are doing it why i am not doing it
and we are again imagining/fantasizing "utopia" free from every man made, cultural n religious laws which miraculously is still heading towards betterment ... N we are also teaching this all thing to 50%-90% people who r teenagers infront of whom we can't use the B, C n F word ...
Ok let's imagine a place like that ... Dnt u think in such a utopia there should not be any kind of moral rules then for every thing ... In a place where there is no evil n concept of crime ... Obviously a place n environment which is so tolerant about the most PRIVATE portion of life in today's world wahan par social tolerance itna hoga keh wahan gunnah n saza ka tou concept he nahe hona chaheye ...
So basically we r trying to increase thresh hold of society for prostitute, gigolo n wife swapping cause these names or i must say SOCIAL JOBS might sound vulgar today but In ur proposed utopia it will not sound as bad ... Everyone will have a choice of freedom ...
I'm not a an expert of human sociology nor psychology ... I'm just an engineer who knows the language of mathematics ... To me such a social setup will just last till its social orgasm ... After that it will have just darkness n emptiness ... A society based on Sex without love with everyone n anyone n any gender I must add is just like a huge orgy ...
U can well imagine how that "MOB" will be ... N if u can't imagine then plz ponder about it

"May wisdom find us ... "

"Plz dnt delete this post MODs there is nothing vulgar in it ... It might sound vulgar to u today ... but we are discussing this topic with ADDED filters of no moral n religious bounds ... A state of advanced n evolved human conscious ..."


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[Shyber]

[MENTION=4563]opethian[/MENTION], did you even bother to read my whole post? Also, were you able to comprehend it?

 

[opethian]

[MENTION=1054]Shyber[/MENTION] n u think I'm criticizing u???



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[Shyber]

[MENTION=4563]opethian[/MENTION], did you even bother to read my whole post? Also, were you able to comprehend it?

- - - Updated - - -

@Shyber n u think I'm criticizing u???



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Not at all! I just felt you went off in a very different direction.

 

[opethian]

Removing the boundaries of religion and still being able to see the flaws.

I thought after saying this n reading my post ap [MENTION=1054]Shyber[/MENTION] ye nae socho gay keh I'm just criticizing u
I must say I even removed cultural n present moral boundaries ...My hypothesis was just based on one thing ... Level of social tolerance ...
Hum ye nahe soch saktay keh aik society jahan consensual sex tou allowed ho but wahan Baqi social setup aisa he rahay jaisay aaj Hamari society main hai ... I think We can't imagine it in isolation without anyother social impact or change ... This was my point ...

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[Nauman 360]

Are we still arguing about this here? come on.. we all like sex, its healthy and good and we have invented condoms and birth control pills. I don't see what the confusing is?
If someone doesn't like it then they shouldn't do it. But I don't think anyone has the right to tell anyone else not to do it.. or what to do and how to do and with whom.

 

[opethian]

Are we still arguing about this here? come on.. we all like sex, its healthy and good and we have invented condoms and birth control pills. I don't see what the confusing is?
If someone doesn't like it then they shouldn't do it. But I don't think anyone has the right to tell anyone else not to do it.. or what to do and how to do and with whom.

N if ur following this thread ... Hum is say kahen agay ki batain kar rahay hain ...



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[Nauman 360]

N if ur following this thread ... Hum is say kahen agay ki batain kar rahay hain ...



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Good. hope its not religion again

 

[ammarzubair]

Removing the boundaries of religion and still being able to see the flaws only strengthens one's belief in that religion. Never stop doing that.

agreed. but i said that with respect to the first post...

i say it should be allowed...

what anyone does in privacy is none of our concern... but if we say that then there are a lot of other things that are still done in privacy but are unacceptable to even those who say consensual sex should be allowed.. never the less my take is it should be allowed.. but not displaying affection publicly (talking about kissing in public here)....

another thing although i say it should be allowed but the pakistani mindset does not accept it... even the most open minded people will not allow or feel insulted if their relative is not involved in consensual sex... its a fact...

right now in pakistan if the law and society starts to accept it there will much more cons and pros..... so no for now

 

[opethian]

Good. hope its not religion again

I thought sex is religion


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[opethian]

i say it should be allowed...

what anyone does in privacy is none of our concern... So no for now

Very interesting
How u comment
"What someone is doing in privacy with ur family member while also ur doing something in privacy with someone else's family member" still no concern?
Imagine it's not PRESENT lets say main 2114 ki baat kar raha hoon


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[opethian]

[MENTION=4563]opethian[/MENTION]

Not at all! I just felt you went off in a very different direction.

Different direction ... How???
It's one of the most civilized outcome ... Out of many possible results ... Do u have a different vision of such society???


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[Shyber]

what anyone does in privacy is none of our concern... but if we say that then there are a lot of other things that are still done in privacy but are unacceptable to even those who say consensual sex should be allowed.. never the less my take is it should be allowed.. but not displaying affection publicly (talking about kissing in public here)....

another thing although i say it should be allowed but the pakistani mindset does not accept it... even the most open minded people will not allow or feel insulted if their relative is not involved in consensual sex... its a fact...

right now in pakistan if the law and society starts to accept it there will much more cons and pros..... so no for now

Well, staying on topic we have to ponder why Laws even exist, even if they're not guided/directed by religion. I mean there are traffic laws. I doubt any religion has traffic laws but every country does and fines dearly.

Similarly theft, even outside religion is deemed a crime and punishable.

But we can say that traffic laws are to prevent accidents and mishaps, theft laws ensure security and safeguard of one's possessions. But there other things like tax evasion, that have negative impact to economy/government/establishment.

But what about consensual sex? Should countries with laws not based on religion ban and punish it?

If yes, then why? If no, then why? We have a lot of options for "no" like free will, privacy, mutual consensus, it's fun, etc. What we're pondering over are the reasons to "yes" and some answers are the fear of extinction, aging economies, anxiety infested youth leading to outsourced jobs, etc.

I guess that's the summary so far.

 

[opethian]

[MENTION=1054]Shyber[/MENTION] ... Very clever ur purposefully avoiding to discuss what side I'm showing ... Perhaps u will have a logical answer ...

Consensual sex was allowed in past also ... But not for common man ... HARAM n Mistress etc were only related to who ??? U know better ... History calls them royal bastards n u know why kings used to do it, other than enjoying consensual sex ... N we r again heading towards those days
So man ha always invented new rules to meet his own needs ... Only inheritance of kings has changed into social insecurities of common man ...


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[shujaswati]

[MENTION=1054]Shyber[/MENTION] the quote-system went wrong and browser went crazy on me closing randomly