Obligations of a tenant

[deltree]

So we've been living in a portion for 6 months now in Lahore DHA. My wife recently went to stay over back in Karachi for a bit and we asked the owners downstairs if we could use their maid for the weekend. Now the owners wife decided it was a good idea to come up with two maids to get the safai done, we sort of agreed knowing it was trickery she could have just sent the maids. Anyways she did and since I had returned from Karachi the last cleanup had been 18 days ago because we were no longer using the house. Anyways she made a bit of fuss about how unclean the cupboard glasses were, I detail my car and know what looks clean and what doesn't. Apparently this lady probably does this all day long at her home with two 24 hour dedicated maids to her rescue.


Anyways anyone who would visit would not notice anything like this place hasnt been cleaned in 18 days. But this lady had a strange obsession with making one of the maids shine the cupboards spending 20 minutes on each one of those. Anyways my wife had put up some art for my daughter with tape on one of the cupboard (glass cupboard not on wooden or formica part). She had the audacity to remove my wife's hand drawn poster and claimed look what the tape has done. Obviously the tape would leave a smudge and we all know how simple it is to get rid of it.


Next up today she messages my wife regarding the epic disappointment she faced. And apparently was sad at the overall state of affairs cleanliness. Let me tell you guys here we had a maid till 18 days ago got the house cleaned and are generally clean folks, but obviously not at the level this lady is expecting us to be which if true would mean my wife would spend 3-4 hours of her day standing on top of the maid to shine everything to a reflection, some wives with empty lives do that but mine prefers to invest that in our daughter to each their own. Plus nothing in these 6 months has been damaged which I believe would be my responsibility to cover.


I need to ask you guys I have never done this rental thing before in my life. So I know a lot of landlords are anal but really the questions we have is:


- what if we could not afford a maid
- what if my wife was working


Ultimately my question is can the tenant legally dictate such a thing? I have yet to check the agreement but I doubt it contains such a clause. Plus my brother is a lawyer but out of town so I want to be as polite as possible while giving them a written slap back on their face.

 

[mistahoj]

Legally, I wouldnt know buddy. I'm in Karachi in a rented portion. The landlady hasnt come up once to check the inside of our place. And they're not allowed in, unless they take your permission. So basically, they can't really know the state of cleanliness inside your place unless you let them in. And lets say, you never let them in.....right uptil you decide to leave the place at which point you hand them the keys and they come in to check the state of the place. Now, if there is some real damage....then they will subtract it from your security deposit ( which they have to return to you, unless there is damage ).

Most arguments arise at this point lol. My suggestion would be to ignore her/humor her so as to maintain a good relationship up until the point when you leave the place permanently.

 

[deltree]

Legally, I wouldnt know buddy. I'm in Karachi in a rented portion. The landlady hasnt come up once to check the inside of our place. And they're not allowed in, unless they take your permission. So basically, they can't really know the state of cleanliness inside your place unless you let them in. And lets say, you never let them in.....right uptil you decide to leave the place at which point you hand them the keys and they come in to check the state of the place. Now, if there is some real damage....then they will subtract it from your security deposit ( which they have to return to you, unless there is damage ).

Most arguments arise at this point lol. My suggestion would be to ignore her/humor her so as to maintain a good relationship up until the point when you leave the place permanently.

It's left a bad taste in my mouth, I think I would probably change the place when the contract is out. It's not like we exist to clean their place up to look like a five star hotel. Btw what sort of things are considered damaged? so if there is even a scratch on the wall paint will they even charge for that?

 

[NaNoW]

It's left a bad taste in my mouth, I think I would probably change the place when the contract is out. It's not like we exist to clean their place up to look like a five star hotel. Btw what sort of things are considered damaged? so if there is even a scratch on the wall paint will they even charge for that?

I am not a lawyer or have seen your contract, but I think the general rule " Leave it as you found it" applies here. If the walls have become dirty (due to scratches, smudges, tape wear, etc) I think you should paint it when leaving. For example, when you are leaving a house, it is kind of expected that you will re polish all the wood, repaint the noticable dirty walls and clean the oven/kitchen tops so no oil spills/burnt stuff leaves a mark. But again, how "Legal" it has to be, can only be said after looking at your contract ( which I am not at all qualified to do)

Also they need your permission after the place is rented to enter the property and I would do as the guy above said..humor them until you leave..you can do without "Ek aur musibat paal li"..

 

[deltree]

I think I will let them endlessly wait for a reply even a polite one. I will speak to my brother when he is back, I believe there is a legal point which states that you will not damage the property except normal wear and tear is allowed. Now my original plan was to obviously return them as a amanat which would have meant giving it back to them as I had received it and obviously I would have cleaned up everything, so I still plan to do that when I am done with these psychotics.

 

[haroonshaikh]

Well there is one more thing
Landlord is allowed to make 10% increment each year on the rent. However, in that case landlord have to completelt white wash the house. So usually land lords dont spend o. White wash and mutually agree on the rent every year. Contracts are for 11 months only as if u contract for 12 or more months then as per law there are some rules that prevent the land lord from forcing tenants to empty the house

 

[Gameover]

i have been living in rented house all my life so let me tell you some rules related to your situation.

owner is not allowed to enter your house without your permission. if she does thats breaking in. they are allowed to check the place once a year and that is also after your permission.

owner can increase 10% rent of house after 11 months and that is only applicable if they do paint job or fix small stuff like taps etc. if wood work is damaged by you then you will have to fix that, same as all the other fixtures. so you can paste what ever you want on that wood cupboard without damaging it.

and off-course wear tear is allowed how can something stay new after some one has used it for year, so if polish is getting of thats all-right, they will have to get it polished when they increase 10% rent.

your idea of using their maid was a very very bad idea because thats how they get their eyes into your home. so if maid sees something wrong at level of 1 she would describe that at level 10 to the owner.

 

[mistahoj]

i have been living in rented house all my life so let me tell you some rules related to your situation.

owner is not allowed to enter your house without your permission. if she does thats breaking in. they are allowed to check the place once a year and that is also after your permission.

owner can increase 10% rent of house after 11 months and that is only applicable if they do paint job or fix small stuff like taps etc. if wood work is damaged by you then you will have to fix that, same as all the other fixtures. so you can paste what ever you want on that wood cupboard without damaging it.

and off-course wear tear is allowed how can something stay new after some one has used it for year, so if polish is getting of thats all-right, they will have to get it polished when they increase 10% rent.

your idea of using their maid was a very very bad idea because thats how they get their eyes into your home. so if maid sees something wrong at level of 1 she would describe that at level 10 to the owner.

Yeah buddy, avoid asking the landlady for her help in keeping the place clean. lol. Allows her to snoop around and pass judgement and maids are not the most eloquent at communication lol. Have someone you know come do it. And you don't need to do it all the time. Who cares about the outside of the house, in Karachi dust flies all the time. You'd go mad cleaning the outside everyday unless you had an army of maids/servants.

Also, yes the contract normally states 10% increase ( didn't know it was after 11 months.) and I did not know myself that they need to re-polish and do the paint and all if that is the case. Now I am better informed too! lol.

 

[KDKHAN]

You must carefully read the agreement which you have signed with them before taking any kind of action. Also check if you have signed this agreement with the land-lady or with some male owner. It is very difficult to deal with the ladies. So if some male member is available on the owner's side, talk to him in detail and let him know your concerns and objectionable behaviour of his female.

2ndly do not at any stage show your intention that you will leave this house soon. Tell them I will stay here and face you. Some people (owners) are in a habit to change their tenants after every 6 months or a year so they start this sort of game play. Last but not least, tenant is a DEFACTO owner of the house and your rights are not less than them in any case till you are paying agreed rent and maintaining house properly.

 

[deltree]

Ok guys, so this paint and polish part I did not know. So thank you for this update, now I know this guy is a miser and if I renew the agreement which mentions 10% increment and is 11 month long then this guy might get the paint done but only on specific spots, I don't have qualms with that but really what is the benchmark for paint job?

Secondly the lady came up with her maid when allowed by me and supervised the maid throughout and obviously I stood by too. She made the visit sound as a favor which we knew was never going to be the case since I could have gotten the cleanup done myself. Anyways I am working on finding a maid myself and getting the work done while my wife is not around. We asked around and the response we were told to give back was tell her thank you for the cleanup, I will look into it when I am back. Basically everyone has said they have no right to say anything until we leave some sort of permanent damage but at the expense of keeping the relationship positive drink it up and move on. Let me also mention this was her first visit in 6 months.

 

[Gameover]

Ok guys, so this paint and polish part I did not know. So thank you for this update, now I know this guy is a miser and if I renew the agreement which mentions 10% increment and is 11 month long then this guy might get the paint done but only on specific spots, I don't have qualms with that but really what is the benchmark for paint job?

Secondly the lady came up with her maid when allowed by me and supervised the maid throughout and obviously I stood by too. She made the visit sound as a favor which we knew was never going to be the case since I could have gotten the cleanup done myself. Anyways I am working on finding a maid myself and getting the work done while my wife is not around. We asked around and the response we were told to give back was tell her thank you for the cleanup, I will look into it when I am back. Basically everyone has said they have no right to say anything until we leave some sort of permanent damage but at the expense of keeping the relationship positive drink it up and move on. Let me also mention this was her first visit in 6 months.

there is no benchmark, you are right they only paint the parts which are dirty, whole house does not get painted and yes when you sign please read it carefully. owners edit the rules, they omit this part of if paint or other fixes is done only then 10% increment will be done. they just write that 10% will increase after 11 months.

i once lived in a house for 6 years, and it did not get painted for 6 years by the owner we did it ourself but rent was increased every year, they even did not have a power cable installed for AC, when i asked them they said "Hum ko kia pata kiraya daar AC bhi lagwa sakta hai". so i got that cable installed and took it off when i left.

so always read before signing and if you dont like something clear that right there and then, otherwise their excuse is that you signed the agreement, more over property dealer although gets half commision from us but he takes side of the owner.

so in short yahan ki mentality yeh hi hai kay kiraye daar marrra banda hi hai.

 

[Hassan]

We are about to rent an apartment, this thread scares me. I have been living in government bungalows all my life, this shit is intense.

 

[Gameover]

check this out, there is no mention in this agreement that rent will be increased after paint job etc. but in reality it is applicable after the wear tear fix, paint job etc. what owners have done is customize it to protect them self from every angle, their is no protection for the tenant.

 

[limpix007]

check this out, there is no mention in this agreement that rent will be increased after paint job etc. but in reality it is applicable after the wear tear fix, paint job etc. what owners have done is customize it to protect them self from every angle, their is no protection for the tenant.

why did you sign it before reading it ?

 

[limpix007]

[MENTION=4219]deltree[/MENTION] ... here is my view on this senerio ....

this definatly sounds like bahneybazi to get you out of the house before termination of contract
ripping the hand made drawing from cupbaord could have been done with the intention to stir up a fight
there are alot more ass owners aunty is still a bit soft-ish compared to worst guys out there

id say not let aunty or the aunty maid entre your portion as you are legally the owner for a certain time period , she is invading your privacy

you can still talk it out , poliety come to agreement that they dont entre your portion and you need privacy etc ... talk to aunty husband

 

[limpix007]

We are about to rent an apartment, this thread scares me. I have been living in government bungalows all my life, this shit is intense.

do reserch :-

about the house
about the owner of house
about past tenats
about neightbours
about water availability
etc ....

this is must before you even come to agreement about renting the house , else you may be facing even worse situation

 

[Gameover]

why did you sign it before reading it ?

was not aware of this repainting thing and fixes at the time of signing. but let me tell you even if you do know and ask the property dealer to write it down he just tries to convince you that its understood and no need in writing etc. but my view is why not its a mutual contract should be made on mutual understanding..

and the other thing is that owner simply just dont agree to what you want and asks the property dealer to find some one else, hence property dealer convinces you..

 

[limpix007]

was not aware of this repainting thing and fixes at the time of signing. but let me tell you even if you do know and ask the property dealer to write it down he just tries to convince you that its understood and no need in writing etc. but my view is why not its a mutual contract should be made on mutual understanding..

and the other thing is that owner simply just dont agree to what you want and asks the property dealer to find some one else, hence property dealer convinces you..

i am on rent since 25 years , lol i am not op i have no problem here

 

[deltree]

Ok guys let me clear this up. So the agent that I used was actually my guy and then I also showed agreement to my phupa who is an estate agent in Karachi before signing it off. Now it contains no stipulation of paint restoration or anything like that and only contains the 10% increment clause. No one I spoke to mentioned this part to me and it is only in this thread that I have discovered that my impending agreement now means I will have to pay 10% increased rent without the owner doing anything. I hope that this serves as a lesson to me and others that next time when negotiating a rental agreement always always get the part about paint job mentioned.

I would like to mention a few pointers to help people out when they are renting a house, that if these things are not working properly or problematic please get them made part of the agreement.

- Review the property taking even an hour, anything you consider damaged take it's photos make it part of the agreement stating this is damage prior to your move in.
- Check every single, I mean every single electrical outlet to be functioning, every single light bulb to be working. Make the agreement's signing subject to correction of these things.
- Check every single faucet, muslim shower right down to the working of the WC.
- Ensure always a separate electrical meter. After viewing a house, get someone such as the agent to turn off the main switch. Move to the meters and check if any current is being drawn there should be none. Even in agreement clearly mention the utility arrangements right down to the meter number, this way if any owner is siphoning off the damn electricity from your meter then you have legal cover.
- Before agreement through possibly a bucket of water check the rain drains for working.
- If space is not given or made for split ac installation understand that holes will be drilled by you the agreement must ensure that the owner grants you explicit permission to do so.

Ultimately as my example is evident, having your agent does not matter since they follow a template agreement format which favors the owner.

 

[ahmad94]

Ok guys let me clear this up. So the agent that I used was actually my guy and then I also showed agreement to my phupa who is an estate agent in Karachi before signing it off. Now it contains no stipulation of paint restoration or anything like that and only contains the 10% increment clause. No one I spoke to mentioned this part to me and it is only in this thread that I have discovered that my impending agreement now means I will have to pay 10% increased rent without the owner doing anything. I hope that this serves as a lesson to me and others that next time when negotiating a rental agreement always always get the part about paint job mentioned.

I would like to mention a few pointers to help people out when they are renting a house, that if these things are not working properly or problematic please get them made part of the agreement.

- Review the property taking even an hour, anything you consider damaged take it's photos make it part of the agreement stating this is damage prior to your move in.
- Check every single, I mean every single electrical outlet to be functioning, every single light bulb to be working. Make the agreement's signing subject to correction of these things.
- Check every single faucet, muslim shower right down to the working of the WC.
- Ensure always a separate electrical meter. After viewing a house, get someone such as the agent to turn off the main switch. Move to the meters and check if any current is being drawn there should be none. Even in agreement clearly mention the utility arrangements right down to the meter number, this way if any owner is siphoning off the damn electricity from your meter then you have legal cover.
- Before agreement through possibly a bucket of water check the rain drains for working.
- If space is not given or made for split ac installation understand that holes will be drilled by you the agreement must ensure that the owner grants you explicit permission to do so.

Ultimately as my example is evident, having your agent does not matter since they follow a template agreement format which favors the owner.

is it a law house must be painted for 10 percent increment? i have very limited experience, just asking as my cousin who is a lawyer told me that increment is accepted as an annual increase without any thing being done.

as far as house on rent, yes your points are great. just id like to add:

- water connection
- gas meter and connection
- distribution of bills if meters are same
- UPS connection point
- seperate dp box if possible
- water gezer
- condition of all cupboards wood as it is many times starting to damage!
- water leakage signs like paint falling, any visible leaks
- any wooden frames of doors, jali of windows that is damaged
- any nails or clamps inside the walls houseowners can even claim it in your security


I think after reading it all your renter lady has too much free time on her hands, I know houseowners who visit only with new tenant/before old tenant is given all clear to shift, or by arranging with house renters first. And yes those days I remember house is specially cleaned before owners come to visit.