Blasphemous Famous Games

[Zeus MK]

Well, these are the rational points in my opinion that I think of why this shouldn't matter much.

3. I just find it stupid, that how people just want to try so hard as to zoom in the heavily pixalated image, to try and pin the blame on the company for offending them.
It just feels to me is that, They want to be offended.

Dude.. for real? :laugh1::fp1:
you do know that ignorance is not an excuse right

or do you imply to say that ignorance is a bliss?

Dude we can't just continue with our eyes close and let the things pass away that matters..

wouldn't it be like if some one is insulting my father.. and I let that pass by.. let it be it was nothing.. let me play the game I wont look into it in detail.. it's routine man..

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I did, I don't think this is blasphemous.

It is insulting

 

[Zeus MK]

What ever your opinion is I hope you don't think there's some anti Muslim agenda by these companies or something.... about that holy words written in the sewer...was that map set in middle east or similar location? Because that make sense since devs love to recycle textures specially in multiplayer maps where map design is given priority over texturing/assets placement. I guess the devs are just oblivious of this "grave mistake" they committed. Personally if you ask me, I couldn't care less and believe God's integrity won't be harmed by his name written somewhere on a texture in a virtual sewer. That being said, I respect your opinion and the ability to encourage healthy discussion...PG is kinda dying these days...so yea

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Well everyone has the right to hold their opinions. Should I wish to stay blind and silent to some one who is insulting my father virtually, I sure can do it no one can stop me, similar to the bird who hides it's face uptil neck to avoid the incoming sea storm..

 

[Zeus MK]

The thing is that developing games, the companies are obliged not to use sensitive materials like the name of lord in such places where it is insulting, and this goes for all religions.
The argument is not about going against the Ideology, heck most games & movies are against the core Ideology, that still is not that serious.

,but putting the holy name in such a way, in such a place, totally out of context implies their malafide intent, especially when they already have done so before..

 

[GloriousChicken]

Dude.. for real? :laugh1::fp1:
you do know that ignorance is not an excuse right

or do you imply to say that ignorance is a bliss?

Dude we can't just continue with our eyes close and let the things pass away that matters..

wouldn't it be like if some one is insulting my father.. and I let that pass by.. let it be it was nothing.. let me play the game I wont look into it in detail.. it's routine man..

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It is insulting

Its not insulting at all.
If words were enough to put the religion in danger.
There wouldn't be any religion at all.

Learn to be tolerant, tolerance is the only way for our religion to actually be portrayed as the one we always promote it as.
These things wont matter.
God will never ask you whether you tried to protect his dignity or not.

He is most likely to ask of you what you did with the powers he granted you in this life.
Live beyond what is taught you in the book or did you simply limited yourself to the example you are taught by his prophet and his book?

It is what you make do with what you're taught that will impress god.

This should be the faithful view of how to live your life.

Example of your father has nothing to do with this.
You or anyone else can talk about your father according to his views and there is nothing you can do to about it, with or without your knowledge.


If you're gonna get offended by every nook and crany of this world.
then you're not ready for this world.

Intolerance will breed intolerance.
There are many kinds of people in this world and there is nothing we can do about it. The lest, we can do is end the hatred that is fed to us by the Mullah Culture and look towards a better culture.

 

[neox3d]

Dude.. for real? :laugh1::fp1:
you do know that ignorance is not an excuse right

or do you imply to say that ignorance is a bliss?

Dude we can't just continue with our eyes close and let the things pass away that matters..

wouldn't it be like if some one is insulting my father.. and I let that pass by.. let it be it was nothing.. let me play the game I wont look into it in detail.. it's routine man..

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It is insulting

Well, sure! feel free to feel that. As you said yourself everyone has the right to an opinion. To be honest with you, I am not sure why some people just get offended so easily and I don't mean you personally. I have seen this attitude a lot among conservative groups/individuals in all sorts of religions.

I personally advocate the right to offend should always be protected and practised and I'm fine with it if someone offends my belief ideas because that always promotes discussions even if they are on uncomfortable topics. The absence of offence just promotes thin-skinned people who when they go out in the real world do not know how to defend their ideas as they have never been challenged.

 

[EternalBlizzard]

They are under no obligation to respect or oblige us in any way. They can show whatever they like because it's their game. If we want more positive Muslim roles in video game. We should probably make them ourselves.

If you really think this then there was no point in having a discussion with you.

It wasn't about obligations in the first place. It was about morals and ethics and to determine whether the Western community is biased and it is. It's an ethical act to respect everybody and everyone's religion. While you may not be obliged to respect everybody, if you don't do it, it's wrong. You statement has no logic. It's like saying it's their life they can do whatever they want. Maybe attack and do wars against Muslims and even keep some Muslim slaves against the laws and you will be sitting there saying "They are under no obligation to respect us in any way. It's their life, they can do whatever they want." :lol:

If they really are under no obligation to respect US why are they getting butthurt over a video game that depicts the story of American Invasion of Iraq?

I personally advocate the right to offend should always be protected and practised and I'm fine with it if someone offends my belief ideas because that always promotes discussions even if they are on uncomfortable topics. The absence of offence just promotes thin-skinned people who when they go out in the real world do not know how to defend their ideas as they have never been challenged.

There is a large difference between getting offended and disagreeing with a topic. What you are talking about is some one disagreeing with your idea. When you disagree with one's ideas you can do so in a respectful manner. Discussion should be held with sane and respectful persons who disagree with your idea but respect your opinion and want to understand better, not with a child who is disrespecting and rejecting your ideas. You don't do discussions with offended people. Advocating the right to get offended basically means yeah you can get angry and all "disrespectful" you want. This isn't ethical.

 

[neox3d]

If you really think this then there was no point in having a discussion with you.

It wasn't about obligations in the first place. It was about morals and ethics and to determine whether the Western community is biased and it is. It's an ethical act to respect everybody and everyone's religion. While you may not be obliged to respect everybody, if you don't do it, it's wrong. You statement has no logic. It's like saying it's their life they can do whatever they want. Maybe attack and do wars against Muslims and even keep some Muslim slaves against the laws and you will be sitting there saying "They are under no obligation to respect us in any way. It's their life, they can do whatever they want." :lol:

If they really are under no obligation to respect US why are they getting butthurt over a video game that depicts the story of American Invasion of Iraq?



There is a large difference between getting offended and disagreeing with a topic. What you are talking about is some one disagreeing with your idea. When you disagree with one's ideas you can do so in a respectful manner. Discussion should be held with sane and respectful persons who disagree with your idea but respect your opinion and want to understand better, not with a child who is disrespecting and rejecting your ideas. You don't do discussions with offended people. Advocating the right to get offended basically means yeah you can get angry and all "disrespectful" you want. This isn't ethical.

I don't find your approach being practical in this instance. All communities are biased, I said that in my first post. But that has no effect on reality. I mean sure let's say the game makers are really biased against Muslims...how does that solve your problem? You either don't play their game or make your own and showcase your own story.

Maybe attack and do wars against Muslims and even keep some Muslim slaves against the laws and you will be sitting there saying "They are under no obligation to respect us in any way. It's their life, they can do whatever they want."

A reductio ad absurdum doesn't help and is a logical fallacy in any discussion.

Not all disrespect is illogical by the way. I can make fun of the flat earth theory. Christianity, for example, has long been ridiculed as a religion, starting with Voltaire and so on and so forth. But it led to the separation of the church and the state and hence the modern west. The right to offend actually ensure the right to have freedom as well.

 

[EternalBlizzard]

A reductio ad absurdum doesn't help and is a logical fallacy in any discussion.

Sure if you think I crossed the logical limits I'd really love to hear about what are your limits on the statement "They are under no obligation to respect or oblige us in any way."
So I'm guessing as soon as other people start harming us in any way you feel the above statement no longer implies. They are under obligation to not harm us? But they aren't under obligation to respect our religion?

I wonder who is creating a fallacy by using statements created for their self created logical limits.

I don't find your approach being practical in this instance. All communities are biased, I said that in my first post. But that has no effect on reality. I mean sure let's say the game makers are really biased against Muslims...how does that solve your problem? You either don't play their game or make your own and showcase your own story.

Don't quite understand what you mean by my approach and my problem. I just proposed raising a voice as a fellow game developer working in the same company who is doing such things and make them understand that doing things like these are considered disrespectful.

All communities are biased sure. But not all communities are disrespectful towards each other. That's what I'm trying to clear out from the very beginning. Be Respectful. Is that so much to ask?

Not all disrespect is illogical by the way. I can make fun of the flat earth theory. Christianity, for example, has long been ridiculed as a religion, starting with Voltaire and so on and so forth. But it led to the separation of the church and the state and hence the modern west. The right to offend actually ensure the right to have freedom as well.

Again I still think it's the right to disagree on a topic. Offend is a more stronger word which always seem to imply to me as the person is just right out pissed or butthurt. Butthurt people usually tend to diss others or the topic they are offended with. If you are offended keep it to yourself don't try to create a discussion in public and diss the person or thing you are offended with. That's unethical. Disagreeing on the otherhand feels more passive.

Its not insulting at all.
If words were enough to put the religion in danger.
There wouldn't be any religion at all.

Learn to be tolerant, tolerance is the only way for our religion to actually be portrayed as the one we always promote it as.
These things wont matter.
God will never ask you whether you tried to protect his dignity or not.

Intolerance will breed intolerance.
There are many kinds of people in this world and there is nothing we can do about it. The lest, we can do is end the hatred that is fed to us by the Mullah Culture and look towards a better culture.

Big things sure started with words only, GC. There is a difference in being tolerant and turning a blind eye to what's going on around you. Little things like these escalate into bigger issues.
Issues like these aren't a walk in the park, a random stranger just dissing you so you say be tolerant, ignore the guy and move on. The scale here is much bigger. Video Games are played by almost everyone
around the world and they effectively portray many things. Why are we letting our religion be someone's toy so he can do whatever he wants with it and we think "be tolerant and ignore it".

And don't get me wrong. Both the creator of the video here, and the devs are wrong. But you guys just seem to disagree with the video creator only. The video creator instead of putting the title "Blasphemous" Should have discussed that how lack of knowledge of other's religion leads to these situations and the developers should try to understand it while adding the point it may or may not be intentional.
On the other hand the devs sure take someone else's religion pretty lightly. Both are wrong in their own places.

The main thing I want to point is look how actively they raise their voice when games like Six days in Fallujah come out which was depicting the American invasion. Like they are fucking scared

Even worse, it could end up in the hands of a fanatical young Muslim and incite him to consider some form of retaliation or retribution

They do understand my above point about how video games effectively portray many things and are played all over the world. But when they decide to use our religion without giving a second thought which portrays a negative view about us to the whole world, We allow them to just toy with it and do whatever they like and tell ourselves to be tolerant?

 

[neox3d]

Sure if you think I crossed the logical limits I'd really love to hear about what are your limits on the statement "They are under no obligation to respect or oblige us in any way."
So I'm guessing as soon as other people start harming us in any way you feel the above statement no longer implies. They are under obligation to not harm us? But they aren't under obligation to respect our religion?

I wonder who is creating a fallacy by using statements created for their self created logical limits.



Don't quite understand what you mean by my approach and my problem. I just proposed raising a voice as a fellow game developer working in the same company who is doing such things and make them understand that doing things like these are considered disrespectful.

All communities are biased sure. But not all communities are disrespectful towards each other. That's what I'm trying to clear out from the very beginning. Be Respectful. Is that so much to ask?



Again I still think it's the right to disagree on a topic. Offend is a more stronger word which always seem to imply to me as the person is just right out pissed or butthurt. Butthurt people usually tend to diss others or the topic they are offended with. If you are offended keep it to yourself don't try to create a discussion in public and diss the person or thing you are offended with. That's unethical. Disagreeing on the otherhand feels more passive.




Big things sure started with words only, GC. There is a difference in being tolerant and turning a blind eye to what's going on around you. Little things like these escalate into bigger issues.
Issues like these aren't a walk in the park, a random stranger just dissing you so you say be tolerant, ignore the guy and move on. The scale here is much bigger. Video Games are played by almost everyone
around the world and they effectively portray many things. Why are we letting our religion be someone's toy so he can do whatever he wants with it and we think "be tolerant and ignore it".

And don't get me wrong. Both the creator of the video here, and the devs are wrong. But you guys just seem to disagree with the video creator only. The video creator instead of putting the title "Blasphemous" Should have discussed that how lack of knowledge of other's religion leads to these situations and the developers should try to understand it while adding the point it may or may not be intentional.
On the other hand the devs sure take someone else's religion pretty lightly. Both are wrong in their own places.

The main thing I want to point is look how actively they raise their voice when games like Six days in Fallujah come out which was depicting the American invasion. Like they are fucking scared They do understand my above point about how video games effectively portray many things and are played all over the world. But when they decide to use our religion without giving a second thought which portrays a negative view about us to the whole world, We allow them to just toy with it and do whatever they like and tell ourselves to be tolerant?

1. That's another fallacy - harming someone is not the same as offending someone.
2. I absolutely agree with you about raising concerns on the matter. I just don't think it is effective unless you create and showcase your own models and heroes and stories. As long as the narrative is in someone else's hand this discussion will always pop up.
3. For some people, it is too much to ask to respect your ideas if they don't really respect it. You can request it but no one can demand it. It just doesn't work like that. Infact, the more you say "go easy on us" the more likely it is going to continue.
4. I think that the definition of offending is very narrow. I meant it in a social-political way where ideas can be offended. It doesn't mean necessarily that someone is butthurt so they are venting out. Speaking the truth sometimes can be unethical as well. What are you thoughts about that?
5. And that is why I keep coming back to Christianity which eventually learned to ignore and be tolerant; ignored the massive critique and public insult caused by secular political satires and shaming, and prospered.
6. About your last point, I would reiterate, why plead with someone to portray you positively, how far that solution can go? They hold the pen and paper and can do at the end of the day, what they like. We just got to do it ourselves if we want to have the same right.

Also, I doubt they meant any intentional, serious harm, it's carelessness but not blasphemous, as you also pointed out.

I get what you are saying, I do. I admire the nobility of such an ideal - to be respectful to all, be ethical. But sometimes (not in this particular case as this is just carelessness and ignorance) in principle, it is necessary to offend.

 

[EternalBlizzard]

1. That's another fallacy - harming someone is not the same as offending someone.
2. I absolutely agree with you about raising concerns on the matter. I just don't think it is effective unless you create and showcase your own models and heroes and stories. As long as the narrative is in someone else's hand this discussion will always pop up.
3. For some people, it is too much to ask to respect your ideas if they don't really respect it. You can request it but no one can demand it. It just doesn't work like that. Infact, the more you say "go easy on us" the more likely it is going to continue.
4. I think that the definition of offending is very narrow. I meant it in a social-political way where ideas can be offended. It doesn't mean necessarily that someone is butthurt so they are venting out. Speaking the truth sometimes can be unethical as well. What are you thoughts about that?
5. And that is why I keep coming back to Christianity which eventually learned to ignore and be tolerant; ignored the massive critique and public insult caused by secular political satires and shaming, and prospered.
6. About your last point, I would reiterate, why plead with someone to portray you positively, how far that solution can go? They hold the pen and paper and can do at the end of the day, what they like. We just got to do it ourselves if we want to have the same right.

Also, I doubt they meant any intentional, serious harm, it's carelessness but not blasphemous, as you also pointed out.

I get what you are saying, I do. I admire the nobility of such an ideal - to be respectful to all, be ethical. But sometimes (not in this particular case as this is just carelessness and ignorance) in principle, it is necessary to offend.

I agree that it's not effective unless we create and showcase our own stories but there aren't many Muslims in the top level of game development to begin with. Secondly when I talk about respecting, I don't demand it. I'm just saying if the party infront doesn't respect your ideas and your religion than it's purely unethical and wrong to do so. We should see them in a negative view instead of telling our fellow Muslims to ignore it. I'm not asking others to get offended and all butthurt over it but you know see them in a negative way and denounce what they are doing is wrong. Since everytime I see people saying just ignore it, I get the feeling they don't even see it negatively.

Secondly, I am not trying to plead with someone to portray us positively. I am not requesting them to show Muslim heroes and Western villains. Again like my above point, I'm trying to establish the fact that if you are using our religion then do so in a respectful manner. IF you ain't doing this in a respectful way then you are being "unethical" and it's WRONG. You are giving a negative view of Muslims and our religion to everybody around the world. Again all I'm trying to prove is the Western community is being unethical when they take our religion lightly. When we do the same thing they react actively. Why, then our fellow Muslims tell each other to ignore it. Why can't we be a united front and denounce what they do in a respectful way. It doesn't mean you have to get butthurt.

About your point 5. While this may be true but think of it from a different perspective. I think small issues like these escalate into big things. You're essentially giving them free reign to do whatever they want. Today they are disrespecting your religion. Tomorrow they will disrespect the people. The next day who knows they will start an activist group and things are gonna get much worse. Take the case with COD's favela map. Gamers all around asked Activision to take out that frame from the toilet. And Activision agreed. This is the proper way. Don't just ignore it, raise a voice.

 

[Quadzilla]

With all due respect, not sure how old you are. You do realize that in the broader perspective, this thread is utterly useless? And at the end of the day it won't change a thing, I understand your emotions for Islam but brother lets get real. There is a lot wrong in the world, lets just focus our energies on things that really matter, stuff that could really use our help right now. I don't want to delve into philosophical shinanegans, just wanted to give my 2 cents. Peace out!

 

[SolitarySoldier]

That's a non-issue. What someone takes offence at is completely subjective. You can't expect other people to perceive things the way you do and be offended because you are. People have freedom of expression. They can express what you find offensive and you have the same freedom to call it out or boycott it. But you can't expect people to not do or say or express what you don't like. Don't like something in a game? Don't play it. End of story.

 

[neox3d]

I agree that it's not effective unless we create and showcase our own stories but there aren't many Muslims in the top level of game development to begin with. Secondly when I talk about respecting, I don't demand it. I'm just saying if the party infront doesn't respect your ideas and your religion than it's purely unethical and wrong to do so. We should see them in a negative view instead of telling our fellow Muslims to ignore it. I'm not asking others to get offended and all butthurt over it but you know see them in a negative way and denounce what they are doing is wrong. Since everytime I see people saying just ignore it, I get the feeling they don't even see it negatively.

Secondly, I am not trying to plead with someone to portray us positively. I am not requesting them to show Muslim heroes and Western villains. Again like my above point, I'm trying to establish the fact that if you are using our religion then do so in a respectful manner. IF you ain't doing this in a respectful way then you are being "unethical" and it's WRONG. You are giving a negative view of Muslims and our religion to everybody around the world. Again all I'm trying to prove is the Western community is being unethical when they take our religion lightly. When we do the same thing they react actively. Why, then our fellow Muslims tell each other to ignore it. Why can't we be a united front and denounce what they do in a respectful way. It doesn't mean you have to get butthurt.

About your point 5. While this may be true but think of it from a different perspective. I think small issues like these escalate into big things. You're essentially giving them free reign to do whatever they want. Today they are disrespecting your religion. Tomorrow they will disrespect the people. The next day who knows they will start an activist group and things are gonna get much worse. Take the case with COD's favela map. Gamers all around asked Activision to take out that frame from the toilet. And Activision agreed. This is the proper way. Don't just ignore it, raise a voice.

And I agree with that. My hesitation in fully endorsing this course of action is the underlying structure of the argument itself. Namely, who gets to decide what is offensive or not? It is a slippery slope. There is no end to that line of thought. What if tomorrow someone gets offended by something really non offensive? It's a can of worms and not a good stance at all. And the reason why I find this approach inherently weak. That is why I believe being offensive is still better even it is occasionally abused.

 

[EternalBlizzard]

And I agree with that. My hesitation in fully endorsing this course of action is the underlying structure of the argument itself. Namely, who gets to decide what is offensive or not? It is a slippery slope. There is no end to that line of thought. What if tomorrow someone gets offended by something really non offensive? It's a can of worms and not a good stance at all. And the reason why I find this approach inherently weak. That is why I believe being offensive is still better even it is occasionally abused.

I see where you are coming from but you know this goes back to our older discussion of "A reductio ad absurdum" i.e. If someone gets really offended by something really non-offensive. If you start thinking that way nothing would make sense and you'd start doing everything as you please. But as you said earlier harming someone is not the same as offending someone. In the same way there are general rules which apply on what is offensive or not. Not respecting someone's religion falls in this category IMO and everybody should steer away from being offensive in that kinda way. Nobody likes to see their culture or religion gets dissed on.

 

[neox3d]

I see where you are coming from but you know this goes back to our older discussion of "A reductio ad absurdum" i.e. If someone gets really offended by something really non-offensive. If you start thinking that way nothing would make sense and you'd start doing everything as you please. But as you said earlier harming someone is not the same as offending someone. In the same way there are general rules which apply on what is offensive or not. Not respecting someone's religion falls in this category IMO and everybody should steer away from being offensive in that kinda way. Nobody likes to see their culture or religion gets dissed on.

The modern SJW's have made it a point of it exactly. You can cause no offense. For example, if a white person wears a Punjabi dress it's deemed offensive because it now falls under cultural appropriation. I can list so many things of people deciding what's offensive and what's not.

And in the heart of your argument it is the same. And I don't say that to belittle your argument. You find something offensive and you want your voice heard. I am not against that, I hope I have made this clear.

But this argument leads to absurdities eventually. Why can't someone feel offended if their cultural dress is used by someone else or hair style or fashion, gender pronouns, language, etc. The list is endless. And there are no rules governing it, you are sadly mistaken about that. The same right that you believe you are entitled to is the same for them.

This is my critique of the argument itself and not necessarily you.

It has been an interesting conversation.




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[EternalBlizzard]

But this argument leads to absurdities eventually. Why can't someone feel offended if their cultural dress is used by someone else or hair style or fashion, gender pronouns, language, etc. The list is endless. And there are no rules governing it, you are sadly mistaken about that. The same right that you believe you are entitled to is the same for them.
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If you believe "disrespecting someone, their religion, culture or country will cause offense" is a debatable topic then I'd say you are mistaken in my opinion. What I mean by "there are general rules that apply on what things are offensive" was the exceptions which almost everyone agree on. You don't need to decide on whether disrespecting someone's religion will cause offense or not "it surely will". About "the right that I believe I'm entitled to" is that no one should disrespect my religion. True, the same is entitled for them. I don't see Muslims releasing games disrespecting other religions like that and if there are then again I'll say that's wrong.

We somehow lost the main point of this thread in our discussion which was that the images shown are a form of disrespect to our religion, whether intentional or non-intentional. Raising a voice against them in a respectable manner is okay and should be encouraged instead of telling the people to just ignore it and that's my take on it.

An interesting conversation, indeed.

 

[neox3d]

If you believe "disrespecting someone, their religion, culture or country will cause offense" is a debatable topic then I'd say you are mistaken in my opinion. What I mean by "there are general rules that apply on what things are offensive" was the exceptions which almost everyone agree on. You don't need to decide on whether disrespecting someone's religion will cause offense or not "it surely will". About "the right that I believe I'm entitled to" is that no one should disrespect my religion. True, the same is entitled for them. I don't see Muslims releasing games disrespecting other religions like that and if there are then again I'll say that's wrong.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion but on the other hand also that you are entitled to be respected.

If it's not debatable than having an opinion means nothing. I think you are treating this issue in a vacuum and not addressing the broader scope of it. This is exactly what is at the heart of the argument and discussion we're having. We don't agree that is fine but let's call a spade a spade.

The whole idea is that no one is entitled to be respected. That entitlement is in your own eyes. And while I appreciate the fact that you are willing to give that respect back, not everyone is looking for it or give it to you.

This argument carries in itself the idea of individual sensitivity and doesn't depend on a majority to be true. An individual can be as easily offended as a group. It doesn't matter. So it's not a question of whether everyone almost agrees on what's offensive and what's not. There's no standard. It's always a subjective thing.

As for video games like the OP# i think this is just cultural ignorance in this instance.



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[EternalBlizzard]

You can't have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion but on the other hand also that you are entitled to be respected.

If it's not debatable than having an opinion means nothing. I think you are treating this issue in a vacuum and not addressing the broader scope of it. This is exactly what is at the heart of the argument and discussion we're having. We don't agree that is fine but let's call a spade a spade.

The whole idea is that no one is entitled to be respected. That entitlement is in your own eyes. And while I appreciate the fact that you are willing to give that respect back, not everyone is looking for it or give it to you.

This argument carries in itself the idea of individual sensitivity and doesn't depend on a majority to be true. An individual can be as easily offended as a group. It doesn't matter. So it's not a question of whether everyone almost agrees on what's offensive and what's not. There's no standard. It's always a subjective thing.

As for video games like the OP# i think this is just cultural ignorance in this instance.

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There is quite a difference between "My religion deserves respect" and "I deserve respect". You know, a random stranger walks up to you and starts dissing you, you should ignore him. But if someone mocks your religion, he is mocking you collectively as a group. These are 2 different things. The scale is much bigger now. The latter should be discouraged since this would lead to discrimination later on. Even though freedom of speech is a basic human right, this is limited in cases which incite violence or discrimination against a person or group. If you want to live peaceful lives as proper sane human beings then Everybody's religions deserves to be respected. If you think that isn't the case and that people's religions don't deserve to be respected then the discussion ends here.

Again let me clear up. When I say my religion deserves respect I don't necessarily mean You can't disrespect it. You can and you may disrespect it, but then be prepared listen to voices raised against your acts. Telling the people raising their voices to "Just ignore it" is wrong. That's what I've been trying to say over the past few pages.

 

[SolitarySoldier]

There is quite a difference between "My religion deserves respect" and "I deserve respect". You know, a random stranger walks up to you and starts dissing you, you should ignore him. But if someone mocks your religion, he is mocking you collectively as a group. These are 2 different things. The scale is much bigger now. The latter should be discouraged since this would lead to discrimination later on. Even though freedom of speech is a basic human right, this is limited in cases which incite violence or discrimination against a person or group. If you want to live peaceful lives as proper sane human beings then Everybody's religions deserves to be respected. If you think that isn't the case and that people's religions don't deserve to be respected then the discussion ends here.

Again let me clear up. When I say my religion deserves respect I don't necessarily mean You can't disrespect it. You can and you may disrespect it, but then be prepared listen to voices raised against your acts. Telling the people raising their voices to "Just ignore it" is wrong. That's what I've been trying to say over the past few pages.

I'm afraid you are contradicting yourself. Your first paragraph is close to rejecting people's right to free speech while your second paragraph affirms it but warns of "voices raised against your acts". No one is saying that you should "just ignore it" and not raise your voice. In fact, that is precisely what affirms the freedom of speech for both sides. But if you agree that people can disrespect any ideology and you are free to raise your voice against that, then what is the issue?

 

[neox3d]

There is quite a difference between "My religion deserves respect" and "I deserve respect". You know, a random stranger walks up to you and starts dissing you, you should ignore him. But if someone mocks your religion, he is mocking you collectively as a group. These are 2 different things. The scale is much bigger now. The latter should be discouraged since this would lead to discrimination later on. Even though freedom of speech is a basic human right, this is limited in cases which incite violence or discrimination against a person or group. If you want to live peaceful lives as proper sane human beings then Everybody's religions deserves to be respected. If you think that isn't the case and that people's religions don't deserve to be respected then the discussion ends here.

Again let me clear up. When I say my religion deserves respect I don't necessarily mean You can't disrespect it. You can and you may disrespect it, but then be prepared listen to voices raised against your acts. Telling the people raising their voices to "Just ignore it" is wrong. That's what I've been trying to say over the past few pages.

That is what I agree with generally. You should never ignore things you care about. That's the beauty of free speech you can raise your voice about it.

On a curious topic you said "everybody's religions deserves to be respected".

I'm interested in knowing that Would you respect a religion if it did things you would not agree with? Or do you respect all religions regardless?









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