Xbox Series S and X Thread - Backwards Compatible like no other

Radical said:

RT without DLSS is too expensive. AMD needs it desperately !

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Reconstruction is working out pretty decently for consoles. Capcom are targeting RT reflections, GI and shadows at 4K/60 FPS using reconstruction techniques. Things are only got better as these new API's and techniques become more common place.

MS has so much at their disposal, VRR, VRS, FidelityFX ... they just don't have any first party games to show these things lol

Reveal Chandoo's post

oof, that was better off not being revealed lol

they just don't have any first party games to show these things lol

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Except that Gears 5 and Gears Tactics support VRS.

There's a lots of games that support Contrast Adaptive Sharpening, that also runs on Nvidia GPU since FidelityFX is GPU agnostic, including MS first party. Heck, even Horizon Zero Dawn on PC supports it.

Any game with variable frame rate or a 120Hz mode is benefiting from VRR too (though the degree of effectiveness varies based on the scenario and display). I'm not sure how a "first party" title would showcase VRR differently.

Chandoo said:

Reconstruction is working out pretty decently for consoles. Capcom are targeting RT reflections, GI and shadows at 4K/60 FPS using reconstruction techniques. Things are only got better as these new API's and techniques become more common place.

MS has so much at their disposal, VRR, VRS, FidelityFX ... they just don't have any first party games to show these things lol

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Yes, it is doing well for the most part but DLSS is too good, I feel AMD needs to do something on the hardware level like Nvidia, for the eventual pro models mid-gen.

Radical said:

Yes, it is doing well for the most part but DLSS is too good, I feel AMD needs to do something on the hardware level like Nvidia, for the eventual pro models mid-gen.

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Of course, if their Super Resolution is the answer, it should be supported by the RDNA2 consoles .. in theory at least.

MS also has their own Direct ML but we haven't seen a single bit of it in action outside of some really old demos on some Forza game they showed a few years back.

AMD Super Resolution won't be the answer to DLSS people are hoping for. It is not going to be hardware accelerated and from what we know their solution does not require machine learning either.

AMD's still in the process of exploring multiple options to implement FSR, so I wouldn't rule out hardware acceleration. As for ML hardware, it may not require it, but may work better when it is present. The hints are there that this will be the case:

Through close collaboration and partnership between Xbox and AMD, not only have we delivered on this promise, we have gone even further introducing additional next-generation innovation such as hardware accelerated Machine Learning capabilities for better NPC intelligence, more lifelike animation, and improved visual quality via techniques such as ML powered super resolution.

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lol


The thirst for DLSS is real. Here's hoping whatever AMD is cooking is atleast serviceable.

Everything is in theory right now, we haven't seen a single console do anything with machine learning or anything similar, even VRS on XBSX|S has been unused so far.

even VRS on XBSX|S has been unused so far.

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I don't know why Chandoo keeps spreading misinformation regarding VRS. Gears 5 and Tactics do infact use VRS on Series consoles.

Chandoo said:

Everything is in theory right now

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Yup. The PC gamer article Necrokiller shared is based on this PC World interview that implies they're still exploring their options:

"What I could tell you is that you don't need machine learning to do it. You can do it in many different ways, and we're evaluating the many different ways. Really, what matters most to us is what will the game developers want to use.

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I think they're looking for a solution that works on their pre-RDNA2 GPUs, but that doesn't rule out hardware accelerated methods for RDNA2 GPUs. MS is already researching ML based super resolution in collaboration with AMD.

Necrokiller said:

I don't know why Chandoo keeps spreading misinformation regarding VRS. Gears 5 and Tactics do infact use VRS on Series consoles.

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Ok well I didn't know that, they certainly didn't at launch so must've been a later update.

Either way, those are still enhanced last gen games. Would be nice to see some implementation for games developed on current-gen first like The Medium.

Thanks to that PC gamer article, atleast CerebralTiger's source of info isn't outdated now lol

DirectML approach relies on shader units for its hardware acceleration. Nvidia has dedicated Tensor Cores for these operations. That's the difference. A DirectML solution which AMD proposes will run on any DX12 Ultimate compliant GPU, including Geforce. RDNA2 isn't a requirement for that.

lol here's what I said prior to Necrokiller sharing the PC gamer article:

CerebralTiger said:

AMD's still in the process of exploring multiple options to implement FSR, so I wouldn't rule out hardware acceleration.

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Here's what the source of the PC gamer article said:

You can do it in many different ways, and we're evaluating the many different ways.

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Evaluating != exploring?

Also, I mentioned RDNA2 as a requirement from the context of AMD's own GPUs. The PS5 is an exception, as it doesn't have RDNA2 features that were the outcome of AMD's DX12U-related collaboration with MS.

No matter how many techniques they explore (or evaluate), they don't have a Tensor Core equivalent in RDNA2. Not really an answer to DLSS then, is it?

CerebralTiger said:

The PS5 is an exception, as it doesn't have RDNA2 features that were the outcome of AMD's DX12U-related collaboration with MS.

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The origin of yikes

Sony's first multiplatform developed game on the Xbox. Visually identical on PS5/SX but SX drops more frames during cut-scenes. Game play is 60 on both. PS5 loads the game 3 seconds faster than SX.

Looking at it from the perspective of dedicated tensor cores, AMD's RT implementation isn't an answer to Nvidia's either, then. There is ray acceleration hardware in RDNA2 GPUs, but much of the processing is still handled by the compute units

Anyway, MS had this early demo for DirectML super resolution in collaboration with Nvidia back in 2019 at GDC. It'll be interesting to see how far they've come since then.

CerebralTiger said:

Looking at it from the perspective of dedicated tensor cores, AMD's RT implementation isn't an answer to Nvidia's either, then.

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No shit. AMD has a long way to go. The lackluster performance speaks for itself

Power components (VRM,MOSFET,and PSUs) seems to be failing a lot for Series X,