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radd
28-07-09, 08:24 PM
Penned by our beloved ex PC mod Atif , read the date before fighting

Reviewed by : Atif (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/members/naumanmanzoor.html)
Edited by: radd (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../members/radd.html)
Original Date: July 6, 2008

Personal computers, machines that revolutionized personal lives of millions across the globe. A machine made for multi tasking and do things which are quite impossible to do by a human mind .

As the time pass these machines became an entertainment portal and above all personal computer became a gaming platform. Millions fell pray to that spell. Starting from Doom to Crysis and from Starcraft to world of Warcraft, every child and adult got addicted to it. This “gaming fever” started to bring billions of dollars to gaming industries. After nearly a decade or so PC gaming suddenly starts to decline.

A threat starts to howl over it and that threat becomes imminent day by day. In past couple of years there is a strong war of words is going on whether pc gaming is dying or not? This is what we are going to know in this article.

PIRACY

Lets start from piracy that is one of the main factors of the decline of the pc gaming. Piracy has hit the software market with its full power. Many countries can do nothing against this menace and the some who try to stop the flow of that thing get success in a very short sphere. When a pc developer makes a game, which supposed to be an exclusive, he has profit making in his mind. But when the game becomes available on the Internet before the actual release the developer gets nothing.

Lets take the example of the best game of 2007, Crysis, made by Crytek studios, which got leaked before the actual release date and developers has to loss their profit. Same case happened with Mass Effect, a PC port from 360, and developers were standing empty handed. This thing results in the decline of PC game development especially PC is losing its exclusive titles.

Developers wanted profit and because of high rate of piracy of PC gaming they are shifting towards console gaming especially PS3 that is so far immune to piracy.

Competition from 'Nextgen Consoles'

Another factor that contributed in the so-called decline of PC gaming is the appearance of “next-gen” consoles that actually generated boatloads of cash for the developers. Why this stage arrives? In an interview to MSNBC on the decline of PC gaming Douglas Peterson, a PC gamer and software engineer from Marcos Island, Fla. said “I don’t see it dying, but I do see it taking a back seat to consoles, especially with games delivering first to the consoles, presumably to sell hardware,” Yes he is right as many games now are being developed for consoles first and then ported to PC.

For example Devil May Cry 4, which is due in July 2008 for PC, first came to Xbox 360 nearly 5 months ago, even though the engine it's made on is most efficient on PC (hence lower development time). Same case happened with Burnout Paradise that hit the shelves for 360 nearly 3 months ago is due for PC later this year or might be Q1 next year.

EXCLUSIVES?

Multi platforming is the other side of the debate. As the next-gen consoles hit the market 3 years ago many, in fact all developers, started to drive towards multi platform gaming.

PC gamers remained stunned in shock when they saw their old time exclusives shifting to consoles. Many game developing companies that were supposed to make PC exclusives deserted the PC gamers. In an interview to MSNBC the famous developer of one of the classic PC exclusives “Civilizations”, Sid Meier said “We’re big PC fans, but we definitely see, when you go to the computer store, that little rack of PC games. It’s definitely a big change from five years ago, when there was a whole wall of PC games.” He was right as the next “Civilization” title going to hit PS3, Xbox 360 and Nintendo DS.

Many other long time pc exclusive companies that made so many great titles for PC are now shifting to consoles. LucasArts, Rock Stars, 2K's Firaxis Games etc are some example of these companies.

HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS

Now to me the most important reason behind the decline of PC gaming is hardware dumping by the hardware giants like Intel, AMD and Nvidia. I remember when I started to play PC games back in 2000 I had a Geforce card which used to run all the games smoothly. You were not able to find so many GPU’s and Processors in that time and companies were not dumping their products as they are doing now.

Last couples of years have seen the fastest dumping of PC hardware in the market by Intel and Nvidia. I am putting AMD out of this race because they are fighting a war of their survival so they are not guilty at least if they are not innocent. Lets take the example of Nvidia as the company dumped 3 series of GPU’s in the market in the time span of just 2 years. O my God…. And this all happened in the name of low price and high performance. According to the officials of Nvidia they are trying to help the consumer to make a better choice. To me this is bullshit and how can consumers make such a “smart” choice when they are confused to whether buy the 9 series GPU or wait for the GT200 series to come out. Same case study can be applied to Intel in early 2007 and since then they have dumped so many models of the processors in the name of the better multi tasking performance. As I said above I am not putting AMD in the list because they are forced to release the new GPU and processors for their survival against Intel and Nvidia.

CONCLUSION

The final words are simple. PC gaming to me is not dead yet but it will die sooner or later if the above things happened to continue at the same rapid phase.

The piracy has to be cured though tough task to achieve but can be done.

The game developing companies has to show some loyalty to PC gaming by making exclusive titles and trust me they have to as they made millions of dollars from PC gaming alone in past few years.

Most important and last but not least, hardware companies have to stop hardware dumping in the market to promote PC gaming. They should have think that their GPU alone costs 500$ while a PS3 which is a complete package costs nearly the same. So gamers can buy a console to play games for atleast 3 years without doing any upgrades which are essential for PC gamers in that span of time.

I hope good old days of pc gaming will return and we will see the top 20 charts of games dominated by PC games.

Atif Rana, Pakgamers.com



First off, i must say, hats off to Atif!

All of the points are valid today as they were in July of 2008 (oh, those good ol days :D ) nothing has changed, some would argue got worse. I would love to hear if someone can debunk this.

xb360enthusiast
02-08-09, 06:45 PM
truly a voice from the heart of a pc gamer..........

radd
02-08-09, 06:53 PM
true that. he covered all fronts.

xb360enthusiast
02-08-09, 06:58 PM
has he left pg or someting.....sad tone,eh?

Necrokiller
02-08-09, 07:36 PM
Wow...he sure made everything sound very dramatic.

PC gaming has taken the back seat for sure, mostly in terms of exclusives. Consoles have the limelight so far and this is all business at the end of the day. In these tough economic times, no one (devs) in their right mind would stick to PC gaming exclusively unless they wana take their company down the drain.

PIRACY
Lets face it. Pretty much the ONLY reason when it comes to the decline in PC gaming is piracy. This can never be stopped no matter how hard they try. Games on the X360 are being pirated as well, but the reason it has not affected console gaming is because in foreign countries its illegal to mod a console, and its not something everyone can do. In other words, even if a few people end up modifying their consoles, that will void their warranty and companies are not losing much through them so it never gets noticed. (everyone knows how imp the warranty is with mr. rrod the great.. 'lulz')

Competition from 'Nextgen Consoles'
Again, the only reason why there are delays in PC releases in because devs want to make the most profit from the games where its not easy to pirate games. Microsoft also has to keep 'Games for Windows' alive. So rest assured 90% of the games making its way to the X360 atleast will end up on the PC as well.

Exclusives
Once again, the devs are shifting because consoles are a better tool for them to make money out of. The library is short... but the games are there.

Hardware Requirements
This has been covered well enough in the podcast that PC gaming was never expensive. Here Mr. Atif is giving personal preference rather than stating facts. So I want to explain a few things here.

The problem is not that there are too many cards out in the market. More choice for the user, how can that be bad? Different people have different needs so they can buy the exact thing they require. Someone who wants simple HD movie playback capabilities, shouldn't have to buy the top-end gaming card. Same goes for the CPUs. There are server cpus, then the most extreme cpus with unlocked multipliers for OC enthusiasts, then mainstream cpus and budget cpus. The confusion for some people is that they see ALL this hardware targetted for gamers, which is not the case. There are tons of other applications (household and business) which require all these hardware. Would you rather have them make 1-2 cpus that would last 3 years or more? Not a smart move by any means. So the plethora of hardware available is a big PLUS point. Needless to say even when buying a gaming card, budget cards give you more than enough performance in games (equal or better than console quality). Buying $500 cards is not a necessity to run/play the game. Those people are perfectionists and have too much money for that stuff. Those cards can utilize Dual-monitor, super high res setups with insane amount of AA/AF and what not.

The problem lies with the marketing strategies of Nvidia and ATI, their naming schemes and the little details that go with the graphics card that can be overwhelming to alot of people. You say they released three series of cards in 2 years. Well technology moves fast my friend. That doesn't mean you have to upgrade everytime a new series of card is released. Thats just stupid.

I built this rig back in 2006, main components being: Core 2 Duo E6550, 2GB RAM, BFG 7900GTX. It has been 3 years and there is NO multiplatform game in the market that it cannot run. NONE! And Im sure it can do so for another year without any hiccups. I built my current rig simply because I wanted to buy a computer with my own hard earned money. So the notion of having to upgrade all the time is not valid. A sensible shopper, before investing money in anything will do a little research and buy the right hardware to last him for a long time. Indeed, thats what the forums and the gurus are here for.

Other than that, all points mentioned are true. But will there ever come a time when there will be no PC games out there (hence the term dying)? No sir, never. Not gonna happen.

mave3
02-08-09, 07:48 PM
Very well said..
but i believe....PC gaming is there to stay...and trust me guys...
its not going anywhere..
we will see plenty of stuff coming are way..
they are 3 or 4 major titles that will hit the pc market.
so things will come back to normal..
dont lose hope PC gamers :)

hasanJ
02-08-09, 07:52 PM
I would love to hear if someone can debunk this.

it got debunked to some extent :p

and thus enters the 20k PC :8

Sire Ahsan
02-08-09, 09:25 PM
Multi platforming is the other side of the debate. As the next-gen consoles hit the market 3 years ago many, in fact all developers, started to drive towards multi platform gaming.

PC gamers remained stunned in shock when they saw their old time exclusives shifting to consoles. Many game developing companies that were supposed to make PC exclusives deserted the PC gamers.

All im wondering is how multiplatforming is killing PCs ? How is making a game for a PC and consoles too 'deserting' the PC gamers ? The timed delays could be a valid point ... but simply going multiplatform ? Hain ?

The majority of multiplatforms look better on the PC (Fallout3, CoD, GTA, Deadspace, Mass Effect). Multiplayer is still better on the PC with lots of extra maps, mods, dedicated servers etc. (Thats why WCG Asia etc. choose the PC versions of games like Call Of Duty 4 etc.). You get two forms of controllers, WSAD + Mouse and the gamepad, so you can have FPS on mouse and your classical titles on gamepad.

Multiplatforms killing PC gaming is just a stupid theory, no offence.

radd
02-08-09, 09:55 PM
You are stupid, no offence.

Companies that previously made games FOR pc are now going multiplatform and deserting PC. The games are made with the console audience in mind.

The focus is diluted and PC loses out since it got full attention from these companies in the yesteryears.

GoldenHawk
02-08-09, 10:12 PM
the pc can never die its the original gaming conlsole and the only reason its losing popularity is because all the current generation game have

too high requirements hence no one buys them hence low reveneues thats the main reason publishers go multiplatform but they dont realize

that we love our pc's and keep them updated with the latest hardware is because we can and the next upgrade is the best thing for a pc

gamer and even if ever game goes multiplatform ill still play them on my pc beacuse the pc is my first gaming rig :D

Radical
02-08-09, 10:13 PM
Multiplatforms killing PC gaming is just a stupid theory, no offence.

Then why are these Peee C gamers butt-hurt from the consoles? especially the PS3.

Shyber
02-08-09, 10:18 PM
All im wondering is how multiplatforming is killing PCs ? How is making a game for a PC and consoles too 'deserting' the PC gamers ? The timed delays could be a valid point ... but simply going multiplatform ? Hain ?

Multiplatforms killing PC gaming is just a stupid theory, no offence.

Ok, let's put it this way. If Crytek hadn't targeted going multiplatform and capitalized on taking the CryEngine2 to a truly next generation of visuals and physics besting DMM and Euphoria putting DX11 to its knees. They didn't. They decided to "optimize" their engine so that it can be used on consoles. Same goes for Carmack's ID tech 5.

If the devs had focused on PC gaming like Crytek did in 2007, then the consoles would've started to look considerably outdated already.

Necrokiller
02-08-09, 10:18 PM
Companies that previously made games FOR pc are now going multiplatform and deserting PC.
Care to name a few games which are NOT developed for PC anymore and are JUST for consoles now?

Chandoo
02-08-09, 10:21 PM
Care to name a few games which are NOT developed for PC anymore and are JUST for consoles now?1/ Remedy

wait, i thought you said companies.

Necrokiller
02-08-09, 10:24 PM
Ok, let's put it this way. If Crytek hadn't targeted going multiplatform and capitalized on taking the CryEngine2 to a truly next generation of visuals and physics besting DMM and Euphoria putting DX11 to its knees. They didn't. They decided to "optimize" their engine so that it can be used on consoles. Same goes for Carmack's ID tech 5.

If the devs had focused on PC gaming like Crytek did in 2007, then the consoles would've started to look considerably outdated already.
You do realize PC is still gonna get the better version? Since Crytek said they will max out every platforms capabilities. Cryengine 3 is flexible enough to achieve that.

No offence but other than Killzone 2 and Uncharted and MSG4, barely any game can match the visual quality of Crysis. (for lack for any other next-gen PC exclusive)

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------


1/ Remedy ;)
Alan wake? Not what i was asking. Any series which was PC exclusive but now its 'deserted' and only for consoles? Say for e.g. Crytek abondoned PC and is ONLY supporting consoles now.

Nomad
02-08-09, 10:25 PM
Very good points raised by necrokiller and Sir Ahsan. Some people only see one side of the picture and turn a blind eye on everything PC has gained.

Consoles got many games which were considered to be PC exclusive titles. But it's not like it's a one way traffic.

Can anybody tell me when was the last time Square Enix released a JRPG for PC before releasing Last Remnant this year?
Before Street Fighter 4, when was the last big profile beat'em up released for PC?
Who here considers next Metal Gear releasing for PC a small feat?
Devil May Cry 4, considered to be a console series, has the best version on PC. Same is the case with Burnout Paradise.

Sure consoles got Crysis 2. But does that mean there is no Crysis 2 for PC? Anybody who has played Crysis knows that it becomes more enjoyable as the graphics improve. Who here thinks that console owners will enjoy it as much as PC owners?


Maybe console fans use words like PC gaming dying because that's what they go through. Let me clear this up for you, Consoles die, PC doesn't (for any thick headed guy, I'm not talking about RROD here)

IGN posted an article on the same topic. It's a good read
http://pc.ign.com/articles/100/1005720p1.html

Necrokiller
02-08-09, 10:34 PM
Sure consoles got Crysis 2. But does that mean there is no Crysis 2 for PC?
Exactly my point. Now if Crysis 2 was ONLY for consoles, that would mean the beginning of the end for PC gaming. One can say multiplatform gaming is not doing anything better for PC gaming, coz we know what its capable of, but that doesn't mean its getting worse.

RE 4 wasn't even ported by Capcom (it was done by Source Next), but now we got a mind blowing port of RE 5 on the PC by them (performance on low-end systems). Then SF4, and DMC 4 as Nomad mentioned. Its only getting better and better.

Shyber
02-08-09, 10:51 PM
No no no, you guys are missing my point.

Focused development on PC means no peanuts for consoles. I was talking about Crytek (applies to id too) that they were done with Cryengine2 in 2007. Had they focused on a newer, more powerful, too heavy for consoles engine with the Cryengine3 with groundbreaking visuals - and NOT optimizing Cryengine2 to inferior hardware and calling it Cryengine3 (unfittingly).

The PC provides the grounds for taking next step. Valve's Source changed everything in 03-04 and Doom3 provided a true leap to next gen. Then Far Cry. All with FOCUSED PC development where the consoles could rot.

Right now, we get the "mufta" ports on PC which run better just because of PCs being powerful. IMO, their potentials aren't being pushed to the limits, like the consoles.

Chandoo
02-08-09, 10:55 PM
Its only getting better and better.only getting better and better because 1 company is releasing games on the PC too, and that too because they have a cross platform engine. ?

as opposed to let's see, crytek, bioware, remedy, epic, valve etc who were formerly PC only companies that are now investing heavily into consoles.

@nomad, when we say "PC gaming is dying" we obviously don't mean that people are going to throw their pc's out eventually lol, it means the state of pc gaming is growing weaker and weaker as it is, as i've already taken a few names, more and more pc only companies are focusing equally, or more towards consoles as well.

there's not much left that a gamer can get "only on the PC" platform, console versions, though technically not as capable, are still the one's that do the real business and get the worth while media attention the game makers so crave.

as shyber stated above, most PC ports of recent times are afterthoughts, brought on months upon months after their console releases just so the developers can milk the tiniest of pc market percentage that buys legit.

also, last remnant is a piss poor example of a game to use to state your stuff lol, also DMC4 and Burnout, both released, what, a year after their console counterparts, does anyone even talk about burnout on the PC ? because i certainly haven't heard anyone, it's just the ps3 or the 360 versions people talk about.


Who here considers next Metal Gear releasing for PC a small feat?i consider it being released on the 360 a much bigger feat :p

Radical
02-08-09, 10:55 PM
PC winn = CryEngine 2, no chance of console version, PC exclusive tech.

PC nearing death = CryEngine 3, multiplat, not so much exclusive anymore :p

Nomad
02-08-09, 11:08 PM
PC winn = CryEngine 2, no chance of console version, PC exclusive tech.

PC nearing death = CryEngine 3, multiplat, not so much exclusive anymore :p
Well, if you like to look at tings this way than

Console win = Metal Gear Solid 4, exclusive, no PC port

Console nearing death = Metal Gear Rising, multiplatform, not so much exclusive anymore :P

Chandoo
02-08-09, 11:12 PM
what's the point of argument here Nomad, when the game you consider the holy grail of all gaming all the time is not on the PC ? :P

Shyber
02-08-09, 11:14 PM
what's the point of argument here Nomad, when the game you consider the holy grail of all gaming all the time is not on the PC ? :P

I'd like to hear the answer to this one. :D

And also to my argument <_<

Nomad
02-08-09, 11:16 PM
what's the point of argument here Nomad, when the game you consider the holy grail of all gaming all the time is not on the PC ? :P
If I make a list of my favorite top five games than I don't think there would be any game from X360. Does that mean X360 is useless and should not be considered? :P


And also to my argument <_<
I think you should locate the CryEngine 3 announcement thread and read my response there. Whatever issues you have raised here have already been answered there in detail :wink2:

Sire Ahsan
02-08-09, 11:22 PM
PC winn = CryEngine 2, no chance of console version, PC exclusive tech.

PC nearing death = CryEngine 3, multiplat, not so much exclusive anymore :p

Metal Gear Solid on PC ... PC winn ? MGS is a much much much bigger title than Crysis !


there's not much left that a gamer can get "only on the PC" platform, console versions, though technically not as capable, are still the one's that do the real business and get the worth while media attention the game makers so crave.

Real Time Strategy game ... while even released on the consoles ... arent really even mentioned by an console player much like no one game a damn about Burnout on the PC (like you said). Thats a whole GENRE of games. Not just one ... but a whole GENRE! Titles like Red Alert, CnC Tiberium, Supreme Commander, Warcraft, Starcraft, Civilizations, Age Of Empires.

And multiplayer in multiplats are bigger on the PC ... hence you have TF2 clans on PC, CoD4 dedicated servers, CoD clans in Pakistan ... WCG Tournaments ... everything ... on PC! Pro-gaming is taken seriously on the PC. Even FIFA ... which the console is supposed to haev the next-gen version of ... still Fifa 09 is on the PC in WORLD CYBER GAMES!


Companies that previously made games FOR pc are now going multiplatform and deserting PC. The games are made with the console audience in mind.

The focus is diluted and PC loses out since it got full attention from these companies in the yesteryears.

By your logic can we say that now since some of the console exclusives are moving to the PC, consoles are dying ? Neglected ? They brought SFIV to PC ... they got RE5 to PC with some extras ... Mass Effect came on the PC didn it ... Metal Gear Solid is coming on the PC too ... Devil May Cry 4 ! Console exclusives on the PC naow ?

You contradict yourself when you say DESERTING and MULTIPLATFORM at the same time :S

Shyber
02-08-09, 11:22 PM
Way to take avoid a discussion Nomad... :P

Chandoo
02-08-09, 11:25 PM
If I make a list of my favorite top five games than I don't think there would be any game from X360. Does that mean X360 is useless and should not be considered? :P

Naah, since you'll still be rooting for a console ;) but for someone who advocates PC gaming so much to consider the best game/series ever to be something console exclusive, is nothing but a black spot on the state of PC gaming and all that it stands for :P.

Whelp, there you have it folks, we've come to a unanimous conclusion now, wrap it up Charlie.


Real Time Strategy game ... while even released on the consoles ... arent really even mentioned by an console player much like no one game a damn about Burnout on the PC (like you said).really ? i'm pretty sure halo wars was a big deal for a lot of people, that and tom clancy's endwar which introduced a new kind of game interface mechanic, on the consoles first.



but a whole GENRE! Titles like Red Alert, CnC Tiberium, Supreme Commander, Warcraft, Starcraft, Civilizations, Age Of Empires.underlined franchises are the one's which have console releases on them. Phail ahsan :p

edit, hey turns out supreme commander is also on the 360, another one underlined :p

like i said, little left that's "PC only" for a gamer to consider, even in the RTS department, and all of those were simultaneous launches on PC/console, not months apart.



By your logic can we say that now since some of the console exclusives are moving to the PC, consoles are dying ? Neglected ? They brought SFIV to PC ... they got RE5 to PC with some extras ... Mass Effect came on the PC didn it ... Metal Gear Solid is coming on the PC too ... Devil May Cry 4 ! Console exclusives on the PC naow ?i already mentioned all of those games in my post dolt ..

RE, DMC, Mass Effect all came/are coming to the PC months upon months after their respective console releases, which i also addressed, and only speaks to the state of PC gaming when popular games tend to come really late, or not at all, but rarely simultaneously.

Metal Gear has had 2 releases on the PC as well, so it's not something out of the blue, the fact that it's coming to the 360 is a bigger discussion argument since this is the first on the 360 and second on a microsoft console at all.



And multiplayer in multiplats are bigger on the PC ... hence you have TF2 clans on PC, CoD4 dedicated servers, CoD clans in Pakistan ... WCG Tournaments ... everything ... on PC!Call of Duty 4 on the xbox 360 has 13 million unique live players playing on it. 'nuff said.

Nomad
02-08-09, 11:25 PM
Way to take avoid a discussion Nomad... :P
I thought that was a COMPLETE answer :P

Sire Ahsan
02-08-09, 11:34 PM
@Chandoo ... read my post again


Real Time Strategy game ... while even released on the consoles ... arent really even mentioned by an console player much like no one game a damn about Burnout on the PC (like you said). Thats a whole GENRE of games. Not just one ... but a whole GENRE! Titles like Red Alert, CnC Tiberium, Supreme Commander, Warcraft, Starcraft, Civilizations, Age Of Empires.

I clearly mention the "not really given a damn about" ... much like you use as an excuse for Burnout and others not even mentioned on the PC. When was the last time I heard that Red Alert 3 tourney horaha ho on the X360 ? ... eh ... no. WCG 2008 ... AoE 3 was on the PC, not console. Even FIFA is still on the PC ... while its NEXT GEN version is on the console only.

Thats why WCG 2009 only has Virtua Fighter 4 and Guitar Hero on the X360, 3 mobile gmes and all other on the PC (5 or 6 I think) ... really ... PC gaming dying when its the most played on a pro level ? On world championship level ?

Oh and while End-war is a great game, its not exactly an RTS ... more of a real time tactics game. No base building ... no micromanagment ... something that RTS are all about.

When Real Time Strategy and MMORPGS are mentioned, only the PC comes to mind. When a platform is exclusive to almost the whole of two GENRE of gaming ... I doubt its 'dieing' ...! All other genres are multiplat.

And you mind saying something against the multiplayer ? You always have got something to say dontcha ?

reaper
02-08-09, 11:40 PM
lolz :P

only 3 games on ps3 i want to play ,, mgs4 , killzone 2 and uncharted 2

n most of the games on xbox360 i like are on PC.

besides strategy n FPS rock on PC n for me are the most fun cuz of the awsum online competition.

tats my defence for PC :)

Chandoo
02-08-09, 11:46 PM
Thats why WCG 2009 only has Virtua Fighter 4 and Guitar Hero on the X360, 3 mobile gmes and all other on the PC (5 or 6 I think) ... really ... PC gaming dying when its the most played on a pro level ? On world championship level ?lol ahsan, striking an axe in your own foot i see :p

looking at the games list for WCG 2009, it's strange to see that they're still playing CS 1.6 and warcraft III, ancient relics of PC gaming, and not anything recent. where as console games are now invading what was widely considered a "PC only" thing for many-a-years.

WCG 2009 seems to have a lot less games in general, 3 PC (the other 3 are cheap chinese and korean productions no one gives a damn about lol) , 2 console 3 mobile if i'm correct, downsizing i guess since it's being held in China, and that no one wants to come to what they think is mainly a PC event ;)


When was the last time I heard that Red Alert 3 tourney horaha ho on the X360 ? ... eh ... nowhen was the last time i heard red alert 3 tourney horaha ho on the PC ? .. eh ? those games aren't nearly as popular as they once were either.


When Real Time Strategy and MMORPGS are mentioned, only the PC comes to mind. When a platform is exclusive to almost the whole of two GENRE of gaming ... I doubt its 'dieing' ...! All other genres are multiplat.
MMORPG ? really ? when you think of MMORPG the only thing i can name is warcraft, which as many have said is probably the only thing left for PC gamers, other than that the only MMORPG i can name is final fantasy XI which is apparently active and more popular on consoles.

mmorpg is a stale genre, there hasn't been any progression in it for years now, but even in that some forth coming MMORPG's like Final Fantasy XVI, DC Universe, The Agency are all being focused on primarily as console games.




And you mind saying something against the multiplayer ? You always have got something to say dontcha ?i already did, besides, have you heard of this thing called xbox live ? it's supposed to have millions upon millions of players on it, you know, for shizzle.

oh, and why is battlefield 1943 a console exclusive again ahsan ? wasn't that sort of thing supposed to be a PC gamer's cup of tea ? not anymore i guess lol

hasanJ
02-08-09, 11:58 PM
alrite noobs say PC Gaming iz dying becoz of next Gen Consoles

thts just BullShit

PC Gaming iz like a Sinusoidal Wave it goes up and down
at the start of a new Gen of Console PC Gaming scene goes down with delayed games and timed exclusives

but after a few years when those consoles enter their final stages of life PC Gaming goes up with innovation and never before seen Graphics

Both 360 and PS3 will die but PC Gaming wont
Xbox2 and PS4 will die but PC Gaming wont :8
wake up nubs

Kane
02-08-09, 11:58 PM
lol ahsan, striking an axe in your own foot i see :p

looking at the games list for WCG 2009, it's strange to see that they're still playing CS 1.6 and warcraft III, ancient relics of PC gaming, and not anything recent. where as console games are now invading what was widely considered a "PC only" thing for many-a-years.

WCG 2009 seems to have a lot less games in general, 3 PC (the other 3 are cheap chinese and korean productions no one gives a damn about lol) , 2 console 3 mobile if i'm correct, downsizing i guess since it's being held in China, and that no one wants to come to what they think is mainly a PC event ;)
when was the last time i heard red alert 3 tourney horaha ho on the PC ? .. eh ? those games aren't nearly as popular as they once were either.

MMORPG ? really ? when you think of MMORPG the only thing i can name is warcraft, which as many have said is probably the only thing left for PC gamers, other than that the only MMORPG i can name is final fantasy XI which is apparently active and more popular on consoles.

mmorpg is a stale genre, there hasn't been any progression in it for years now.


i already did, besides, have you heard of this thing called xbox live ? it's supposed to have millions upon millions of players on it, you know, for shizzle.

oh, and why is battlefield 1943 a console exclusive again ahsan ? wasn't that sort of thing supposed to be a PC gamer's cup of tea ? not anymore i guess lol
From ancient relics i remember something like Cod 4 multiplayer
Abay yaar tum console walon ke pass itne players nahi hote jitne hamare servers hote hain!
Someday try to break one of the Holy console commandments and try to run cod4 on ur pc and see how many server are there(official + non official).U will die calculating lol

I am reading something about mmorpg and from this genre i am remembering something like WOW:confused:!( with countless members)

Now chandoo will say this is also trolling!

(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)

(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)

(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)

(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)

(javascript: leoHighlightsIFrameClose();)

Chandoo
03-08-09, 12:00 AM
Abay yaar tum console walon ke pass itne players nahi hote jitne hamare servers hote hain!really ? there are 13 million + servers for call of duty 4 ? cause that's how many active xbox live players there are according to activision themselves, that's not even counting PS3 players.




Both 360 and PS3 will die but PC Gaming wont
Xbox2 and PS4 will die but PC Gaming wont http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/cool.gif
wake up nubs

yeah, PC gaming will just require some cosmetic surgery that will be ten times more expensive than buying a next-gen console :8

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:04 AM
yeah, PC gaming will just require some cosmetic surgery that will be ten times more expensive than buying a next-gen console http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/cool.gif

20K PC Performs better than a 40K PS3
i dont see the ten times price

Kane
03-08-09, 12:05 AM
really ? there are 13 million + servers for call of duty 4 ? cause that's how many active xbox live players there are according to activision themselves, that's not even counting PS3 players.





I was only talking about cod4 players can u confirm it every body who is active on xbox live has COD4!lol


(javascript: leoHighlightsIFrameClose();)

Chandoo
03-08-09, 12:06 AM
20K PC Performs better than a 40K PS3
i dont see the ten times pricewrong timeline, right now PC gaming is in the decline and it's getting console ports, if pc gaming ever picks up again, it'll be after the console cycle is nearly over and brand new tech only possible on scalable hardware is introduced, which will undoubtedly require fuck-ton's of expensive upgrades.


I was only talking about cod4 players can u confirm it every body who is active on xbox live has COD4!lol


(http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)


dude, 13 million xbox live players playing COD 4 is a number given by activiosn themselves, 13 million is not the total amount of XBOX live players lol, total is like 30 million or something.

Kane
03-08-09, 12:08 AM
I also know some hot chicks from europe who only play NON violent games!Beat that.......
and now i am coming to XBOX live player i my self have 12 profiles enjoyed an entire free year of xbox live!

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:09 AM
wrong timeline, right now PC gaming is in the decline and it's getting console ports, if pc gaming ever picks up again, it'll be after the console cycle is nearly over and brand new tech only possible on scalable hardware is introduced, which will undoubtedly require fuck-ton's of expensive upgrades.

u can do 1280X720 no AA on 4 Year old PC Hardware if u bought the rite stuff

so wht Xbox2/PS4 will be able to do 1920X1080 Native? big deal
40K worth of PC can do tht now
those future TECH for consoles iz BS

1280X720 noAA pakra dya aur yeh Next Gen realism hay?

Kane
03-08-09, 12:09 AM
UPDATE:From the same pirated dvd now actvision will be thinking me=12!lol
(beat that)

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 12:12 AM
mmorpg is a stale genre, there hasn't been any progression in it for years now, but even in that some forth coming MMORPG's like Final Fantasy XVI, DC Universe, The Agency are all being focused on primarily as console games.

How are multiplatform games apparently being 'focused' on consoles ? Because console makers advertise them ? I mean really ? Focused on consoles because they company who makes the console tells you so ?


MMORPG ? really ? when you think of MMORPG the only thing i can name is warcraft, which as many have said is probably the only thing left for PC gamers,

Only thing ? Really ? With your ignorance I dont think I really need to go on further. Remember that whats said on console conferences isnt the ONLY thing that exists in the world my friend. If you are going to say Warcraft is the only thing left for PC gamers ... all I can say is lulz at your ignorance :)


i already did, besides, have you heard of this thing called xbox live ? it's supposed to have millions upon millions of players on it, you know, for shizzle.

And yet most of the multiplayer multiplat games are played on the PC on the tournament level ... Call Of Duty 4 was on the PC @ WCG Asia ... fo shizzle!

Just the availability of something like a PC-exclusive going on the console or online gaming doesnt mean PC gaming dies, if anything ... it brings the console up to an equal level of the PC ... PC stays there, and gets some console exclusives while its at it while still excelling in FREE multiplayer online gaming with the hugest playerbase, especially in Pakistan ... and world recognition on a serious hardcore pro gaming level

Kane
03-08-09, 12:14 AM
.................................

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Chandoo
03-08-09, 12:17 AM
okey THAT is trolling kane.




u can do 1280X720 no AA on 4 Year old PC Hardware if u bought the rite stuff

so wht Xbox2/PS4 will be able to do 1920X1080 Native? big deal
40K worth of PC can do tht now
those future TECH for consoles iz BS

1280X720 noAA pakra dya aur yeh Next Gen realism hayresolution is irrelevant hasan, you can't tell much difference until you have a really big screen, and when games like COD4 running in sub HD can look miles better than most proper HD games, it just proves my point that much.

no, it's about the amount of polygons etc etc, and better aliasing which will obviously improve over time on all platforms.

and i'm pretty sure discussing things like 360/PS3 can only do "X" resolution isn't the point of this topic :p, high resolution count isn't helping the PC any right now, i don't see them releasing uncharted on the PC just because it can do higher resolution there :P, and what happened to alan wake again ? oh yeah, it high-rezzed out of PC for good lol



How are multiplatform games apparently being 'focused' on consoles ? Because console making companies advertise them ? I mean really ? Focused on consoles because they company who makes the console tells you so ?because that's how the game makers pitch them :S The Agency and DC Universe are both Sony Online products, so whcih platform do you think they'll be advertised more for ? take a wild guess my friend.

also, Final Fantasy XVI, at the sony e3 keynote, huge splash, i don't think anyone even cares about that game coming to the PC, people including sony officialls consider it a "ps3 exclusive".




Only thing ? Really ? With your ignorance I dont think I really need to go on further. Remember that whats said on console conferences isnt the ONLY thing that exists in the world my friend. If you are going to say Warcraft is the only thing left for PC gamers ... all I can say is lulz at your ignorance http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/smile.gifif you think PC gaming is not dying, i lulz at YOUR ignorance good sir, see, two can play that game ;)


And yet most of the multiplayer multiplat games are played on the PC on the tournament level ... Call Of Duty 4 was on the PC @ WCG Asia ... fo shizzle!uh, did you read the rest of my WCG comment at all ? :S ever since the start WCG has been a PC only thing, but in recent years console games are invading a PC-only event, who's at a loss here again ?

oh and, where's COD4 in this year's WCG lineup again ? oh that's right, they're playing COUNTER STRIKE 1.6 LOL and STARCRAFT BROOD WARS !! lol.

even the World Cyber Games doesn't want any recent PC release on it :p

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:31 AM
resolution is irrelevant hasan, you can't tell much difference until you have a really big screen, and when games like COD4 running in sub HD can look miles better than most proper HD games, it just proves my point that much.

19 inch LCD iz enuff to tell the difference between 1280X720 and 1440X900
and a 22inch LCD will give u 1920X1080 shit loads better than 1280X720
U WILL Notice the difference and these r standard LCD those big ones r 26inch and above


COD4 running in sub HD can look miles better than most proper HD games

give me one example

and btw 19inch and 22inch r common for gaming
and if anyone cant tell the difference between 1280X720 and 1920X1080 native then he needs an ey check up seriously

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 AM ----------

and COD4 1280X720 looks better on PC
on any monitor/LCD u choose and thts just the basic since 1280X720 came a long time ago in PC Gaming

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 12:32 AM
also, Final Fantasy XVI, at the sony e3 keynote, huge splash, i don't think anyone even cares about that game coming to the PC, people including sony officialls consider it a "ps3 exclusive".

So if PC gets a game exclusive to consoles, it "doesnt matter" ... if a PC game goes to consoles you call it the death of the PC. How stupid is this logic ?....

... PC is getting MGS now ... PS3 is dieing its got nothing now! That console is as good as dead ... sound stupid ? Im just using your logic here!


if you think PC gaming is not dying, i lulz at YOUR ignorance good sir, see, two can play that game

Then can you tell me the logic behind your "Warcraft" only thing ?

PC is still getting all the multiplatforms, including some of the console ONLY games now! Games look better on the PC almost always (refer to Gamespots X360vsPS3vsPC comparision). Multiplayer is still very strong on the PC, including servers being launched in Pakistan now ... alongwith tournaments etc..!

If you say multiplatform games are now coming and PC exclusives are being denied ... PC gaming getting console exclusives means that consoles are now being denied ? Consoles are dieing ?

r3aper
03-08-09, 12:35 AM
whatever you say guys.....All games are developed via PC softwares...modeling/maps/textures/motion-capture/and almost ever other thing

So bleh...yeah imma trolling :p

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:35 AM
when Console gets PC exclusives then PC iz dying <_<

but when PC gets Console exclusive then wht? u dont say Console iz dying?

Kane
03-08-09, 12:51 AM
saying Pc gaming is dying is = saying NVIDIA is Dying+intel is dying+amd is dying.
cmon man these are multi-billion comapnies and even their might is not enough they are hiring partners to fulfill pc gamer needs around the globe new products are coming!
and here we are saying That pc gaming is dying!
Saying this is like saying Days are disapearing!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 12:59 AM
wow seriously console fuckers, no backup ?



and if anyone cant tell the difference between 1280X720 and 1920X1080 native then he needs an ey check up seriouslyI'll use an ancient and loved example here hasan, street fighter IV 360, native 720p simply upscaled to 1080p looked exactly the same as street fighter IV running natively on 1080p on PC according to internet comparisons.

and no, zooming in 200x on a corner of the screen doesn't count since humans don't have microscopic eyes, or that large screens.




give me one exampleuh, i'm talking in the context of consoles here.




So if PC gets a game exclusive to consoles, it "doesnt matter" ... if a PC game goes to consoles you call it the death of the PC. How stupid is this logic ?....yeah, it kinda doesn't since all the attention will go to the console version, did you even read my original post ? there's little left for an average gamer that's "PC Only" at this point, even in your beloved MMORPG genre is actively rushing towards consoles too now lol.

like i've said already, even if the console version of the game isn't as technically capable as the PC version, it's still the one that's played more by the general populace, that's common sense.



... PC is getting MGS now ... PS3 is dieing its got nothing now! That console is as good as dead ... sound stupid ? Im just using your logic here!No, you'll still be able to play MGS on your PS3's or 360's, just like how Nomad pointed out that Crysis 2 is still coming to PC's also, but as i said already there's little left "only for PC" to entice gamers to get gaming PC's.




PC is still getting all the multiplatforms, including some of the console ONLY games now! is PC getting FFXIII ? Alan Wake ? Smackdosn vs Raw ? UFC ? Tony Hawk ? Tekken 6 ?

no dear there are tons of multiplatform games PC is still not getting, more so most of the multiplatform games it is getting are arriving a long time after their console counterparts, after everyone who wanted to, had already played them.

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 01:13 AM
[B]No, you'll still be able to play MGS on your PS3's or 360's, just like how Nomad pointed out that Crysis 2 is still coming to PC's also, but as i said already there's little left "only for PC" to entice gamers to get gaming PC's.

Better graphics for one ... something that people whore over in "next gen" gaming.

I was using your stupid logic of saying that PC games going multiplatform means the PC is dieing! Sarcasm ... duh! When the PC games goes onto consoles ... you will still play them on the PC, that too with better graphics ! So that part is out of PC gaming being killed because of it.


like i've said already, even if the console version of the game isn't as technically capable as the PC version, it's still the one that's played more by the general populace, that's common sense.

Thats common sense ? Hah ? Really ? How ? Your version of common sense makes as much as sense as your PC dieing cus it looses its exclusive, while console loosing its exclusive doesnt even matter.


is PC getting FFXIII ? Alan Wake ? Smackdosn vs Raw ? UFC ? Tony Hawk ? Tekken 6 ?

Some of the "console ONLY" ... SOME! You ignore those that are coming, name those that arent. Great work ... Tony Hawk ? Really ? Tekken 6 ? WoW ! What epic games ... ! I crave for Tony Hawk SKATER on my PC ... screw RE5 or MGS, I want Tony Hawk *again sarcasm, since you failed the last time to get it*

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:19 AM
Better graphics for one ... something that people whore over in "next gen" gaming.
Thats common sense ? Hah ? Really ? How ? Your version of common sense makes as much as sense as your PC dieing cus it looses its exclusive, while console loosing its exclusive doesnt even matter.
this is why you suck at arguments ahsan lol.

if "better graphics" were what people drooled over there wouldn't be this many 360 owners in the world, or even on pakgamers. "better graphics" don't automatically make the PC version the most desirable version of the bunch. "better graphics" isn't going to make the PC version sell worth a damn compared to the console versions. "better graphics" isn't going to turn any person who already has a console to play that game on to buy a gaming PC.

when i say "for PC only" it actually means that, games that are only on the PC that make someone like me want to buy a gaming PC just to play that, eg Crysis 1 or warcraft, games that force gamers to buy a gaming PC just for that. (lol).



Some of the "console ONLY" ... SOME! You ignore those that are coming, name those that arent. Great work ... Tony Hawk ? Really ? Tekken 6 ? WoW ! What epic games ... !you said "PC is getting all the multiplatform games".

define multiplatform lol, games that are on multiple systems, how is the PC getting "all" of them ? :P

and tekken is a pretty big effing deal, even in pakistan, you didn't visit that tourney we went to a few years back lol, that's besides the point though, however, like i said your claim of "PC getting all multiplatform games" is very much so false.

you can't even play tales of vesperia on PC dude, and nomad considers that the best jrpg of the current gen, and nomad's the freaking PC advocate king here lol

wow nomad is such a backstabber isn't he lol, he prances around as the biggest PC gaming advocate on the site, yet his favorite games of various aspects are all console titles. lol




When the PC games goes onto consoles ... you will still play them on the PC, that too with better graphics ! So that part is out of PC gaming being killed because of it.wow talk about missing the point entirely lol, there's little that's left as PC only right now, where as consoles have "exclusives" far and wide. Read that sentence carefully.

i'll spell it out slowly, the ratio of games that are console exclusive to PC exclusive is really high, you can count games that are ONLY ON PC on your finger tips, where as the games that are only on consoles are plentiful, and when you talk about "multiplatform" games like the one's that are on both consoles and PC, odds are higher that more console owners are going to play those games than PC owners.

now do you get it ? or do i need to go even slower?

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 01:44 AM
if "better graphics" were what people drooled over there wouldn't be this many 360 owners in the world, or even on pakgamers. "better graphics" don't automatically make the PC version the most desirable version of the bunch. "better graphics" isn't going to make the PC version sell worth a damn compared to the console versions. "better graphics" isn't going to turn any person who already has a console to play that game on to buy a gaming PC.

Tell that to owners of gaming PCs AND consoles.


you said "PC is getting all the multiplatform games".

define multiplatform lol, games that are on multiple systems, how is the PC getting "all" of them ?

You're going out of context. I was saying "PC exclusives that are going multiplatform now", and was quoting that we are still getting all of those ex-PC exclusive and NOW multiplatform so that doesnt mean it kills PC gaming in any way. Hence after that I keep quoting "some of the Console exclusives" right after this line.


when i say "for PC only" it actually means that, games that are only on the PC that make someone like me want to buy a gaming PC just to play that, eg Crysis 1 or warcraft, games that force gamers to buy a gaming PC just for that. (lol).

Diablo 3, Starcraft II, Command And Conquer 4.

Games are a personal preference, people who like RTS and who like FPS will still buy a PC. Thats why so many people on Pakgamers have pretty decent gaming PCs even with consoles! Wow! They must be stupid to buy a PC eh ? You can go ask them why they have a PC even though they have a console.


you can't even play tales of vesperia on PC dude, and nomad considers that the best jrpg of the current gen, and nomad's the freaking PC advocate king here lol

You wont get Diablo 3 ... Its considered one of the best RPGs of ALL TIME! The Diablo series is something much better than Tales of Vesperia. You cant start quoting personal game preferences to show "Ohhh looook you wont get this ohhh nooes". Nomad has had a X360 wayyyy before you, back in your anti-xbox days ... yet he still has a PC. Something must have made him get it ... and others here too. Some of the top "PC advocates" here have the X360 and the PS3 too long time before you got it! There must be a reason why they think the PC is still alive and well worht investing in for gaming.


... you can count games that are ONLY ON PC on your finger tips

Games only on PC on your finger tips ? Im amazed at your ignorance. Just because YOU dont know them ... doesnt mean they dont exist.

Kane
03-08-09, 01:50 AM
I think its a bit offtopic but the only rts i have ever played on console was LOD and i was forced by xbox controls to quit the game .I admit that somehow we can play fps on console but RTS...........

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:53 AM
Better graphics does make games better and more desirable. Saying better graphics dont mean anything is just stupid ... simply stupid! yeah, that's totally why no one plays the 360/PS3 versions of COD4/5 and the PC versions are all the world plays and the PC versions of all the multiplatform games break all the charts.

wait .. what ? lol

Sure, it probably means "something", a point for the PC gamers to gloat about, but that doesn't really take anything away from the console versions, you don't see reviews discussing the PC version of multiplatform games running at some higher resolution and giving it more marks because of that.

do you ?




If better graphics didnt matter, you would have not seen any console gamer keep a gaming PC which is upgraded for much higher graphics.

I don't think i know any such console gamer, shyber was a PC gamer first then he bought the consoles, Nomad's the same, even YOU a PC gamer are seriously considering a console.

so it's working the other way around actually, PC gamers are buying consoles.



You're going out of context. I was saying "PC exclusives that are going multiplatform now", and was quoting that we are still getting all of those ex-PC exclusive and NOW multiplatform. Hence after that I keep quoting "some of the Console exclusives" right after this line.that's also another one of my points, PC is still "keeping" it's franchise exclusives, but those franchise exclusives are coming to the consoles now as well, this includes a lot of notable games that were used to hype PC gaming before, Battlefield 1942's sequel is a console exclusive, Crysis is coming to console, Operation Flashpoint etc etc.

where as comparitively the ratio of "console games that are going to PC too" is a lot less.



Diablo 3, Starcraft II, Command And Conquer 4.

Games are a personal preference, people who like RTS and who like FPS will still buy a PC. Thats why so many people on Pakgamers have pretty decent gaming PCs even with consoles! Wow! They must be stupid to buy a PC eh ? You can go ask them why they have a PC even though they have a console.like i said, count 'em on your fingertips.

1/ diablo, 2/starcraft, 3/ CnC4 (which i highly doubt will remain PC exclusive before it's release), name a few more please ?


people who like RTS and who like FPS will still buy a PCahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

2001 called, wanted to tell you that FPS's are a main-stream genre on consoles now. Seriously, you really think more people are going to play Modern Warfare 2 on the PC compared to the 360 ? or even the PS3 ?

do names like Killzone, Halo (lol) ring a bell ? lol




You wont get Diablo 3 ... Its considered one of the best RPGs of ALL TIME! The Diablo series is something much better than Tales of Vesperia. You cant start quoting personal game preferences to show "Ohhh looook you wont get this ohhh nooes". Nomad has had a X360 wayyyy before you, back in your anti-xbox days ... yet he still has a PC. Something must have made him get it ... hmm! I wonder .. you just said there is only very little left. Well that little is still working http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/smile.gifhow do you know diablo is better than vesperia ? have you played vesperia ? i don't think so, i on the other hand have played both the diablo games AND vesperia, hence my opinion on the subject is a lot higher valued than yours :D. Still, the internet reviews for both the games aren't that far apart.

but personal preference is still there i agree, my point was to highlight that even the most highest level of PC advocates prefer console gaming for some (or the most) part. See, Nomad's favorite game of all time.

Kane
03-08-09, 01:56 AM
y


I
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

2001 called, wanted to tell you that FPS's are a main-stream genre on consoles now. Seriously, you really think more people are going to play Modern Warfare 2 on the PC compared to the 360 ? or even the PS3 ?



Definitley and thats because of our lovely mouse and extra frames per seceond which gives us ultimate control on fps!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:03 AM
let me lay some truth down on you ..


http://www.joystiq.com/2009/05/26/call-of-duty-4-reaches-13-million-players-on-xbox-live/


There are more players who play Call of Duty 4 Online on the xbox 360 ALONE, then the total number of World of Warcraft players.

do you really think more PC people play COD4 than WoW ?

No, i don't think so.

So, no, i don't think there's any chance that more PC people will play modern warfare 2 compared to 360 people.

Kane
03-08-09, 02:21 AM
The second reason has been mentioned by a few gaming blogs already -- it's surpassed the total number of World of Warcraft (http://www.joystiq.com/tag/World-of-Warcraft/) players. Impressive? Well, yes -- though nobody is forced to subscribe to Call of Duty 4. As far as pure, lucrative retention is concerned, we think WoW still takes the cake.


Mentioned by the few GAMING BLOGS(did i spelled right) not any official thing(like Ea said) next day something else will be on blogs so will u believe!


Now coming to ur Now coming to ur xbox live thin i myself have 12 profiles so in COD4 thinks me=12.So our country have 18 crores of poulation at least some no. are those children who play cod4 on xbox 360.So to save their money one will make two profiles on avrage so how many imposter profiles are thier every child = 2 in the eyes of actvision.You know these are recession times!:wink2:
(http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20leoHighlightsIFrameClose%28%29;)

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---------- Post added at 02:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:17 AM ----------

This calculation is as unbalanced as the sale of original games!
U and i better know how deep roots this piracy have on the globe!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:26 AM
first off, i highly doubt you have 12 xbox live ID's since one console is restricted to 3 trials.

secondly, we all know there are free WoW servers as well.

thirdly, WoW has free trials for first-timers as well, just like xbox live.

fourhly, majority of those xbox live players are american ID's since the details were revealed on Major Nelson's podcast, which is US based.

fifthly, the number didn't come from "just any blog", it was revealed by Activision reps themselves, listen to that podcast here.

http://cod5.strategyinformer.com/news/21-robert-bowling-on-podcast.html


This calculation is as unbalanced as the sale of original games!
U and i better know how deep roots this piracy have on the globe!pirated copies don't count towards actual sales, so when activision say they've sold over 10 million copies of their game, it doesn't include the cheap 100 rs copies we buy lol, it's talking about the full priced 60$ copies.



also, please edit your older posts, don't go on making new posts with just one line and the rest of the last post copy pasted.

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:26 AM
1/ diablo, 2/starcraft, 3/ CnC4 (which i highly doubt will remain PC exclusive before it's release), name a few more please ?

Empire total war, CoH, Witcher, Stalker, warhammer, demigod, supreme commander 2, warcraft, empire earth 3, sins of solar empire ... lots more really ... I think this is enough for you for now. Other games you quote as ex-pc exclusives like Civilziation are series and you miss out on around 3-5 titles that are PC exclusive. Ek alag say consoles ka port huwa ... not allll the expansions etc.


ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha

2001 called, wanted to tell you that FPS's are a main-stream genre on consoles now. Seriously, you really think more people are going to play Modern Warfare 2 on the PC compared to the 360 ? or even the PS3 ?

do names like Killzone, Halo (lol) ring a bell ? lol

People who like FPS ... ask any owner of a console + PC ... they will tell you they prefer playing FPS on the PC. I said people who prefer RTS and FPS ... both of which come on the consoles, but are simply better to play on the PC. Denying this wont change the fact that it is so, and people with consoles and PC will tell you the same. FPS are better played on the mouse ... enough said.


where as comparitively the ratio of "console games that are going to PC too" is a lot less.

In the numbers maybe yes, but when the most hyped up console games goes to PCs ... like RE, DMC, MGS, SFIV ... there really is a balance in the comparision ... on quality if not quantity.


you don't see reviews discussing the PC version of multiplatform games running at some higher resolution and giving it more marks because of that.

do you ?

They commend the superior graphics. They do comparisions.


but personal preference is still there i agree, my point was to highlight that even the most highest level of PC advocates prefer console gaming for some (or the most) part. See, Nomad's favorite game of all time.

So they like consoles. Still they have PCs. That might ring a bell to you that maybe PCs are good for gaming as well as consoles and your PC dying claim is false ? There are LOADS of people who own both PCs (which they have upgraded after 2006, when consoles came) and consoles. They would have never had a PC had it been dying.


There are more players who play Call of Duty 4 Online on the xbox 360 ALONE, then the total number of World of Warcraft players.

OFFICIALY! Anyone who plays online, even with a pirated copy of CoD4 on X360, or with more than one ID, gets registered in that count.

In World Of Warcraft or any other PC game for that matter, such a thing doesnt happen for pirates. And we all know that piracy is way way way big on PC and I would say 60%+ PC gamers use pirated games online. Maybe 75%+

CoD4 kay Pakistan main PC par kitnay players hain ? There are around 10 clans of CoD4, some with over 15 players, and then the normal CoD4 players ... I doubt the same amount of CoD4 onlien players exist on the X360.

Kane
03-08-09, 02:39 AM
first off, i highly doubt you have 12 xbox live ID's since one console is restricted to 3 trials.

secondly, we all know there are free WoW servers as well.

thirdly, WoW has free trials for first-timers as well, just like xbox live.

fourhly, majority of those xbox live players are american ID's since the details were revealed on Major Nelson's podcast, which is US based.

fifthly, the number didn't come from "just any blog", it was revealed by Activision reps themselves, listen to that podcast here.

http://cod5.strategyinformer.com/news/21-robert-bowling-on-podcast.html
pirated copies don't count towards actual sales, so when activision say they've sold over 10 million copies of their game, it doesn't include the cheap 100 rs copies we buy lol, it's talking about the full priced 60$ copies.



also, please edit your older posts, don't go on making new posts with just one line and the rest of the last post copy pasted.
I can upload the pic of my profile menu then u will see the next wonder of the world abrakadabra.................

and 2ndly u are saying majority have american ids
so why would anybody make an american id if he is living in UK.if so its a bannable offense like piracy its cleary stated in their license of xbox live.
ur answer is in ur own question!


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Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:46 AM
Empire total war, CoH, Witcher, Stalker, warhammer, demigod, supreme commander 2, warcraft, empire earth 3, sins of solar empire ... lots more really ... expanisions of certain games etc etc
besides warcraft and witcher i haven't got a single clue about what the rest of the games are lol, well i guess that's to be expected, niche PC games that no one cares about stay on the PC, where as the one's that gain popularity all jump ship eventually.


People who like FPS ... ask any owner of a console + PC ... they will tell you they prefer playing FPS on the PC. I said people who prefer RTS and FPS ... both of which come on the consoles, but are simply better to play on the PC. Denying this wont change the fact that it is so, and people with consoles and PC will tell you the same. FPS are better played on the mouse ... enough said.
"better" is such a subjective term, with the amounts of aim assist that console FPS's throw at a player, there's hardly a difference, and some people just like playing with the pad, which would explain the popularity of the 360 pad for PC gamers as well.

this point is still subjective though as if you're someone who has most of his friends on console to play with, you'll play the console version as well even if you have the PC version and a PC capable of running it.





In the numbers maybe yes, but when the most hyped up console games goes to PCs ... like RE, DMC, MGS, SFIV ... there really is a balance in the comparision ... on quality if not quantity.
so you're saying that, say, RE5 is better quality or "more hyped" than Crysis 2 ? :P

totally agree'd from my end, but i don't think many others will agree :p

but you know, companies like Remedy jumping ship and making console EXCLUSIVE games now, or formerly PC exclusive companies like Bioware making console titles, speaks large volumes for Quality as well. Hell, Devilscallmedad's favorite franchise Gothic is also coming to the consoles.



They commend the superior graphics. They do comparisions. but never rate the actual product any higher based on slight graphical differences.



So they like consoles. Still they have PCs. That might ring a bell to you that maybe PCs are good for gaming as well as consoles and your PC dying claim is false ? There are LOADS of people who own both PCs and consoles. They would have never had a PC had it been dying.actually, the way i'm seeing it, more PC gamers are now shifting towards console just so they can get to play the games, this includes YOU too ahsan, so yeah, sounds pretty much like you guys future proofing so you're not left with a single dying system. ;)

what were you going to buy a 360 for ahsan, the racing games right, WELL WHY DONT YOU PLAY THOSE RACING GAMES ON YOUR GAMING PC lol ? :P



@kane, i can only look and laugh at the mess your posts are, are you trying to make yourself look like a fool ?

omerrandhawa
03-08-09, 02:52 AM
cod4 players are definitely more on the x360 then on the pc every moron would know that... u can compare the original game sales and you will have the picture... plus if someone is playin cod4 online on pc through a pirated copy he isnt getting the full experience anyways cuz of the limited amount of server choices available

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 06:43 AM
Oh boy...I took a nap for a while and I'm waking up to this. I tried my best to read all the posts. But all of them said the same thing in different words.


Focused development on PC means no peanuts for consoles.
Yeah. So even when next-gen consoles were here, we STILL got TWO kick-ass exclusives (Crysis, Crysis Warhead), which will never be seen on the console. Why do you ignore that? Does it mean console gaming was 'dying' back then according to Crytek? MGS4 didn't make its way to the PC (or X360), and the last time I checked, Metal Gear Rising will be released for the PC and x360 as well (correct me if it was cancelled). Is PC gaming still 'dying'? Its fair to say what X360 has, has way more chances of it coming to the PC...things are different on the Sony side though.


The PC provides the grounds for taking next step. Valve's Source changed everything in 03-04 and Doom3 provided a true leap to next gen. Then Far Cry. All with FOCUSED PC development where the consoles could rotSo lets just wait for the transition period. When people will be saving 'f**k-tons' of money to buy their next console. Afterall, you must buy every gen of console right? Exactly what the manufacturers want :P


Right now, we get the "mufta" ports on PC which run better just because of PCs being powerful. IMO, their potentials aren't being pushed to the limits, like the consoles.
True. PC games, down to the core, are now limited to what the consoles can do. But don't forget features like 'Shadow Density' in GTA 4 which was exclusive to the PC (now go on, tell me it doesn't matter coz you can't have it). They still take it up a notch by improving on the res, textures and blah blah, and I speak for myself or any other PC-only gamer when I say it matters and I can easily spot the differences. If someones else eye isn't capable of doing that, they have been gaming on the console for far too long, but the differences ARE there. If your screen is small or not even an HDTV for that matter, then you are NOT playing the way the dev intended it to be played so i don't blame you when you can't spot the differences.

Shyber its not a wise business decision for most console-only developers to spend all the money to make a PC version of a game from scratch, hence they simply port it. But you can expect otherwise from Crytek. Companies STILL port it over. So PC gaming isn't dying. If the majority neglects it altogether, then you can say that. Yes there are some exclusives id rather have a console for, but the list is not that long. Some people would rather play a better version of the multiplatform games on the PC rather than own a console for the extra exclusives they might not even care about. So its all very subjective to say consoles are a better investment.

To me atleast PC gaming right now is satisfactory. Not the best it can be, but just good enough. If you read my first post, even my 3 years old PC can run all the games at console equivalent quality. Hows that for not having to upgrade all the time?

People who are not even FPS players, try to keep the arguments where they can still be related to you. What I mean to say is, I don't give a f**k how well Halo is doing coz im just not all gaga over it (or FF or other 'big' names out there). If its something I don't like, I couldn't care less even if it was on the PC.

As for delayed releases, we can thank piracy for that. It DOES not mean PC are a dying breed. It all depends on the developers. Wasn't Prototype released simultaneously on the consoles AND PC? (1 or 2 days later perhaps)

radd
03-08-09, 07:11 AM
how do you spell pointless?

if you were to listen to the pc defense force at PG you'd think PC were the best platform ever and there are games comin out of its asshole!

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 07:25 AM
Excuse me, but people are trying to have a discussion here. If you have something useful to contribute, by all means do. Obviously thickheads missed the point and can't see the other side of the story...or are they being stupid on purpose? No wait...its just another xbot. Carry on with the one-liners please, you might just come up with something worth laughing at.

Shyber
03-08-09, 10:03 AM
Oh boy...I took a nap for a while and I'm waking up to this. I tried my best to read all the posts. But all of them said the same thing in different words.


Lol yeah. Perhaps these guys realize that Shyber's asleep at night and do their nocturnal discussions :P



Yeah. So even when next-gen consoles were here, we STILL got TWO kick-ass exclusives (Crysis, Crysis Warhead), which will never be seen on the console. Why do you ignore that? Does it mean console gaming was 'dying' back then according to Crytek? MGS4 didn't make its way to the PC (or X360), and the last time I checked, Metal Gear Rising will be released for the PC and x360 as well (correct me if it was cancelled). Is PC gaming still 'dying'? Its fair to say what X360 has, has way more chances of it coming to the PC...things are different on the Sony side though.


Lemme get one thing pretty straight. "Dying" is a pretty poor choice of word. Hibernation, yeah may be. But what can best describe the situation is "PC dev taking a back seat" when it comes to dev focus. Back in the time, there was a considerably distinction between PC games and Console games, where guys like Valve, IDtech, Gearbox, Crytek, etc focused merely on PC game development because of its advance and constantly evolving hardware - allowing them to raise the bar of graphics, presentations and gameplay with subsequent releases of their games, engines and tech.

Times changed. Where PC used to be the focus of game development, it has taken a back seat and now more importance is given to consoles. It's not that PC gaming is coming DOWN. It's like its progress graph is flattening where console development, focus and progress is catching up to it (and at this point in time) crossed over it. So it's like Consoles now have everything significant that PC does, and its AAA list of exclusives outweigh the PC exclusives.

Last generation saw a genre made mainstream on consoles which was tought difficult and cumbersome - FPSs. I too think that FPSs are better off with a mouse and keyboard but after spending just a bit of time with them on consoles, I realized that it's pretty cool and not as cumbersome as I had imagined. So yeah, playing FPSs lying down on your back on a stretched Sofa with a gamepad is rather appealing for a guy who's tired after a day's work at the office :)

This generation, we saw even RTSs being attempted. Personally, I never have been a fan of RTS genre so I don't even try them. Even less on consoles now. But for people who do, they can on the consoles as well. Something they couldn't before. Who's gaining here?

PC's biggest advantage used to be its online gaming capabilities. I remember playing Twisted Metal 2 on a modem with my cousin once back in 1998 I think. Heh. Starting from last gen and peaking this generation, online gaming has taken over. You're never short of online servers and effortless P2P gaming allows for pretty cool latencies with your friends. There are too many people already playing the game at ANY time of the day. It's not that this is something the PC doesn't have. It's that that consoles have that too and PC lost this advantage as well.

So when you got consoles providing everything a PC does, rather economically, negligible quality differences (let's say you got a 32" HDTV), effortless gaming online and offline AND the added benefits of certain stellar exclusives that aren't on PC and at the luxury of playing multiplayer OFFLINE games without any hassle or mess, from your couch - I can see what a guy's choice will be.

As a perfectionist gamer, well, you can see my gaming platforms, can't you? :P I really don't wanna miss out on anything, so I got everything.




So lets just wait for the transition period. When people will be saving 'f**k-tons' of money to buy their next console. Afterall, you must buy every gen of console right? Exactly what the manufacturers want :P


For me, MGS series is over. Perhaps Final Fantasy might come to PC too but seems unlikely right now but as long as there's a console exclusive from a dev whose work I love, I'll be buying a console. In fact, single console parties, offline multiplayer, hassle free gaming, etc are factors that'll always incline me towards consoles.

PC attracts me when it's being focused upon. Like Crysis (which I personally didn't enjoy and I skipped Warhead 'cos I was already quite annoyed by Psycho's character). The game didn't appeal to me though, I liked COD4 over it more :P but I still remember the day when I downloaded its 1GB demo from Guru3D and started it up setting everything to full. Got a call from friend while I was playing and I was getting a "Hello? HELLO? Fawad you're there?" from him.

I'm actually waiting for Valve's next engine as well as Doom4 when Carmack would say "Suck up console bitches...limiting me to 2 DVDs eh? Making a mockery of my megatexture architecture hmm? NOW FEEL MY WRATH and feast your eyes upon true next gen."




True. PC games, down to the core, are now limited to what the consoles can do. But don't forget features like 'Shadow Density' in GTA 4 which was exclusive to the PC (now go on, tell me it doesn't matter coz you can't have it).


You think I'd do that? Watch your tone when talking to me. 'K?




They still take it up a notch by improving on the res, textures and blah blah, and I speak for myself or any other PC-only gamer when I say it matters and I can easily spot the differences. If someones else eye isn't capable of doing that, they have been gaming on the console for far too long, but the differences ARE there. If your screen is small or not even an HDTV for that matter, then you are NOT playing the way the dev intended it to be played so i don't blame you when you can't spot the differences.


Now this attitude is what gets you in trouble. The defensive "oh don't hurt me" thing. I admitted cosmetic upgrades and everything and PC always runs multiplats better, it's a pointless thing to argue upon. Those who can't patche their games well enough don't do PC gaming and don't have to right to diss it either. But that's besides the point. These cosmetic upgrades doesn't make or break the game's soul. My point is that PC can do better, easily. You can have full volumetric diffusible light during day hours and 100+ light sources of Killzone2 at night with Euphoria AND DMM AND highly detailed character models. If the game had been tailored specifically for a PC that outstrip's console's hardware specs, it can blow it apart.

PC gamers should demand more. Because their hardware is better. Just not better utilized. They're content with minor cosmetic upgrades and better FPSs that are just thrown in to make up for the considerably delayed releases. PC gamers can have more, and they should. They're in a league of their own and should be treated so, instead of months old ports of console titles.



Shyber its not a wise business decision for most console-only developers to spend all the money to make a PC version of a game from scratch, hence they simply port it. But you can expect otherwise from Crytek. Companies STILL port it over. So PC gaming isn't dying. If the majority neglects it altogether, then you can say that. Yes there are some exclusives id rather have a console for, but the list is not that long. Some people would rather play a better version of the multiplatform games on the PC rather than own a console for the extra exclusives they might not even care about. So its all very subjective to say consoles are a better investment.


The point isn't about console devs making a PC game from scratch. It's about PC devs shifting their focus to consoles. It's about men like Carmack compromising his algorithm for an inferior hardware - something NEVER done before. A guy who crafted his engine around a hardware that was PENDING to be released. Someone who strives to push the things to next level is focusing on consoles and even changing his game design because of DVD9 format.

Valve is playing more intelligently though. Using their PREVIOUS gen engines to make pretty good games. They probably realized that most console gamers aren't graphic whores and only care about playing a fun game, which Valve can easily make. Good news is that even 4 year old PC will run Valve's stuff butter smooth. ;)




To me atleast PC gaming right now is satisfactory.


Depends on what you're comparing it to, and what your expectations from it are. If you compare PC gaming with PC gaming from past then well, it's not really dying. There were Prince of Persias, Devil May Crys, Resident Evils, MGSs, Splinter Cells, Halos on it since forever but we see Burnout coming, which was a first. Then Street Fighter 4, probably the first fighter focused on PC since ages but still, the delayed releases are quite a nuisance. I mean for a guy like me who just has to have every major game on ASAP basis, 4-8 months is a pretty big gap.



Not the best it can be, but just good enough. If you read my first post, even my 3 years old PC can run all the games at console equivalent quality. Hows that for not having to upgrade all the time?


True, but even a 1lac PC won't run GeoW2, MGS4, Uncharted Series, RnC series, Fable2, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Killzone, Infamous, Jaffe's works, Resistance series, Last Guardian, God of War 3, GT5, Heavy Rain, and MOST importantly for me, Final Fantasy XIII and Versus. Then having delayed releases of gems like Conviction and Alan Wake is too much of a torture to endure.




If its something I don't like...


And that's exactly the problem. How can you like or dislike something without trying? I mean, look at the above list I posted. As a gamer, easily ignoring majority of those games is a pretty difficult thing.




As for delayed releases, we can thank piracy for that. It DOES not mean PC are a dying breed. It all depends on the developers. Wasn't Prototype released simultaneously on the consoles AND PC? (1 or 2 days later perhaps)

PC isn't dying as a gaming machine. It has already died as the lead platform. Point is, a gamer can survive without a "gaming PC" this generation. A PC only gamer, if realizes what he's missing on consoles, can't. Read: Survive. Not a perfectionaist who wants everything :P

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 10:42 AM
So yeah, playing FPSs lying down on your back on a stretched Sofa with a gamepad is rather appealing for a guy who's tired after a day's work at the office :)
Get a gamepad for the PC.
It's that that consoles have that too and PC lost this advantage as well. Losing an advantage is not nearly the same as not having it/losing it at all. Something alot of people cannot understand. So if anything, consoles are catching up, doesn't mean PC is going down (not that you said that).


So when you got consoles providing everything a PC does, rather economically, negligible quality differences (let's say you got a 32" HDTV), effortless gaming online and offline AND the added benefits of certain stellar exclusives that aren't on PC and at the luxury of playing multiplayer OFFLINE games without any hassle or mess, from your couch - I can see what a guy's choice will be.Yeah..consoles today are not just consoles. They are meant to be the entertainment centre powerhouse. That translates to the zenith of console gaming. Not the downfall of PC gaming. If Bangladesh is getting better at cricket, it doesn't mean Australia sucks now :P

And since when was buying 32"inch HDTV for consoles considered economic? How many Xbox 360 owners here alone have a HDTV? Even Chandoo is using an age old CRT as far as I know. If you wana take the price of HDTV in account as well, then I don't need to tell you that console gaming gets as expensive as a high end PC. (high-end). As for LCDs on PC, even cheaper ones can do more than 720p. And to my knowledge, other than the Sharp AQUOS 32" HDTV, there aren't any hdtvs so small in size than can do 1080p.


As a perfectionist gamer, well, you can see my gaming platforms, can't you? :P I really don't wanna miss out on anything, so I got everything.Your situation couldn't be better. But sadly majority of the population cannot afford that.


PC attracts me when it's being focused upon. Like Crysis (which I personally didn't enjoy and I skipped Warhead 'cos I was already quite annoyed by Psycho's character). The game didn't appeal to me though, I liked COD4 over it more :P but I still remember the day when I downloaded its 1GB demo from Guru3D and started it up setting everything to full. Got a call from friend while I was playing and I was getting a "Hello? HELLO? Fawad you're there?" from him. Im not gonna argue with your taste...COD4 was all about its MP, but the single-player campaign in Crysis is one of the best I've ever played. I got hooked since the moment I ran the demo. Storytelling could be better, but its an action game (it was as good or bad as GeOW), but it was amazingly immersive nonetheless.


I'm actually waiting for Valve's next engine as well as Doom4 when Carmack would say "Suck up console bitches...limiting me to 2 DVDs eh? Making a mockery of my megatexture architecture hmm? NOW FEEL MY WRATH and feast your eyes upon true next gen."I'll be eagerly awaiting that moment too. And I'll make sure a topic for that exists here at PG :P



You think I'd do that? Watch your tone when talking to me. 'K?I wasn't pointing any finger at you. Take a chill pill.


The point isn't about console devs making a PC game from scratch. It's about PC devs shifting their focus to consoles. It's about men like Carmack compromising his algorithm for an inferior hardware - something NEVER done before. A guy who crafted his engine around a hardware that was PENDING to be released. Someone who strives to push the things to next level is focusing on consoles and even changing his game design because of DVD9 format.

They're in a league of their own and should be treated so, instead of months old ports of console titles. The devs will run wherever they can make more money. Crysis, Assassins Creed, The Sims 2, Fallout 3, Pro Evolution Soccer 2009, GTA: SA, COD4 etc were some of the most pirated games on the PC last year. Did that stop the devs from abandoning the platform? Aren't we getting Crysis 2, AC2, PES 2010, GTA 4, MW2 and so on? Everything boils down to piracy. Theres nothing more to it.


True, but even a 1lac PC won't run GeoW2, MGS4, Uncharted Series, RnC series, Fable2, Tekken, Ninja Gaiden, Killzone, Infamous, Jaffe's works, Resistance series, Last Guardian, God of War 3, GT5, Heavy Rain, and MOST importantly for me, Final Fantasy XIII and Versus. Then having delayed releases of gems like Conviction and Alan Wake is too much of a torture to endure. Agreed. I did say there are some exclusives for which I do own the console. Im not limiting myself to PC gaming only as well.


And that's exactly the problem. How can you like or dislike something without trying? I mean, look at the above list I posted. As a gamer, easily ignoring majority of those games is a pretty difficult thing.Ill let your own words answer that question:
"Personally, I never have been a fan of RTS genre so I don't even try them. Even less on consoles now."

Shyber
03-08-09, 10:59 AM
Get a gamepad for the PC.


And get my ass kicked? :P
On consoles, everyone's on even ground and the game's movement is tailored around a pad's sensitivity with assists and everything.




Losing an advantage is not nearly the same as not having it/losing it at all.

Losing an advantage is not losing. Yeah, that's what I said but most PC gamers aren't better off console gamers either, portraying PC gaming as if nothing is better than it.




Yeah..consoles today are not just consoles. They are meant to be the entertainment centre powerhouse. That translates to the zenith of console gaming. Not the downfall of PC gaming. If Bangladesh is getting better at cricket, it doesn't mean Australia sucks now :P


Worst. Analogy. Ever.
You can do better than this. ;)




And since when was buying 32"inch HDTV for consoles considered economic? How many Xbox 360 owners here alone have a HDTV? Even Chandoo is using an age old CRT as far as I know.


LOL @ EVEN Chandoo.
(lmao) OMG Ahahahahaha. I guess you really don't know him.





Your situation couldn't be better. But sadly majority of the population cannot afford that.


True, but that doesn't give'em a right to whine about it :P



Im not gonna argue with your taste...COD4 was all about its MP, but the single-player campaign in Crysis is one of the best I've ever played. I got hooked since the moment I ran the demo. Storytelling could be better, but its an action game (it was as good or bad as GeOW), but it was amazingly immersive nonetheless.


I'd say Crysis was better then Gears1 but there were lotsa inconsistencies that didn't allow me to like it.




I'll be eagerly awaiting that moment too. And I'll make sure a topic for that exists here at PG :P


Hahahaha. Fanboy. :lol:




I wasn't pointing any finger at you. Take a chill pill.


Well, you had a few quotes of mine in there, so I though you were talking to me. Don't worry, I'm chill. I just don't take BS from anyone.




Did that stop the devs from abandoning the platform?


That's not my argument. No dev is really keen about releasing PC exclusives now. Even if they are, they're a neglible minority compared to those who're making things multiplat.



Agreed. I did say there are some exclusives for which I do own the console. Im not limiting myself to PC gaming only as well.


Yeah I know. Hence you see me trying to talk to you.




Ill let your own words answer that question:
"Personally, I never have been a fan of RTS genre so I don't even try them. Even less on consoles now."

Yeah, now I don't even botehr about a game if it's an RTS. I've had my goes at some of them and that style of play just doesn't appeal to me. Probably only two RTSs that I've ever "FINISHED" and those were Rise of Nations and AOE3. That's about it. But I did try it and made up my mind after the experience and NOT that I made up my mind without even trying :P

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 11:08 AM
And get my ass kicked? :P
On consoles, everyone's on even ground and the game's movement is tailored around a pad's sensitivity with assists and everything. I was talking about games other than FPS. I would NEVER pick up a gamepad for some serious FPS MP session. No matter how tired I am. The only exception being Resistance and KZ2. I love those games too much to ignore it.


Worst. Analogy. Ever.
You can do better than this. Oh come on... now you're getting too serious. It was just added for the lulz.


LOL @ EVEN Chandoo.
(lmao) OMG Ahahahahaha. I guess you really don't know him. I would love to know more than the obvious fanboyism he portrays ;)


Hahahaha. Fanboy. :lol:You don't have anything to fear, do you? :lol:


That's not my argument. No dev is really keen about releasing PC exclusives now. Even if they are, they're a neglible minority compared to those who're making things multiplat. Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Not gonna say anything else from now on.


Yeah I know. Hence you see me trying to talk to you.And for gaming's sake I'm putting up with FFX. Its haaard getting into, but Im not letting the usual stuff bother me.

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:20 AM
I was talking about games other than FPS. I would NEVER pick up a gamepad for some serious FPS MP session. No matter how tired I am. The only exception being Resistance and KZ2. I love those games too much to ignore it.


And you think controls really get into your way of having fun with those?



Oh come on... now you're getting too serious. It was just added for the lulz.


Yeah I know. I commented on the quality of lulz :P




I would love to know more than the obvious fanboyism he portrays ;)


Work harder :D




You don't have anything to fear, do you? :lol:


It's the fanboys who have to fear me. ;)




Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Piracy. Not gonna say anything else from now on.


Funny how piracy kills PC games and how the lack of it makes PS3 look bad. :lol:



And for gaming's sake I'm putting up with FFX. Its haaard getting into, but Im not letting the usual stuff bother me.

Where you at in it? On my wall, this convo will continue.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 11:29 AM
And you think controls really get into your way of having fun with those?
Not really. But I know my reflexes and aiming will be more fruitful if I was using a mouse/keyboard.

Funny how piracy kills PC games and how the lack of it makes PS3 look bad. :lol:Hahaha very true. Opposite of both extremes. One does too much, other not at all.

Radical
03-08-09, 11:31 AM
Oh MAN! i can't read all of that :mushy: keep the posts short & don't repeat the same points over :/

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:32 AM
Not really. But ...


My point made :)
Sure, precision would be nice, but in no way the current configs hamper the fun factor in the games. FPS have nailed it on the consoles. And I see the same kinda trend being established for RTSs.




Hahaha very true. Opposite of both extremes. One does too much, other not at all.

Yeah, and just about the right amount on 360. Balance is what can be associated with it, that's all.


Oh MAN! i can't read all of that :mushy: keep the posts short & don't repeat the same points over :/

Just read from my thesis onwards and you'll do fine.

Nomad
03-08-09, 11:34 AM
you can't even play tales of vesperia on PC dude, and nomad considers that the best jrpg of the current gen, and nomad's the freaking PC advocate king here lol
I do consider Tales of Vesperia the best JRPG of this gen so far. But I don't consider it the best RPG of the past couple of years. That honor belongs to Witcher. But sadly you wouldn't know much about that as that is a PC exclusive title :P

Wait, wasn't a console version for it being released. Care to tell us what happened to it :P



wow nomad is such a backstabber isn't he lol, he prances around as the biggest PC gaming advocate on the site, yet his favorite games of various aspects are all console titles. lol

even the most highest level of PC advocates prefer console gaming for some (or the most) part. See, Nomad's favorite game of all time.
Since you seem obsessed with what I like :P, here is a list I posted in September 2009 in "PG's vote for your favorite game" thread.

1. Metal Gear Solid 1, Farcry
2. Zelda 64: Ocarina of Time, Super Mario 64
3. Resident Evil 4
4. The Longest Journey
5. Chrono Cross, Dragon Quest VIII
6. Uncharted: Drake's Fortune
7. Call of Duty 4 (Only Multiplayer)
8. Gothic 2
9. Warcraft 3, Diablo 2
10. God of War, Shadow of the Colossus
http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/general-gaming/4667-pgs-vote-your-favorite-game-see-1st-post-15.html#post194205

Although there have been a couple of changes in my opinion since then (Uncharted a bit higher, above RE4).

Amongst these 15 games I played 11 on my PC (N64 and PS1 games through emulator). Five of these are PC exclusives.

And right now I can play 14 of these games on my PC. If I only had a PS3 and 360, I would have been able to play only two of these games.



I don't think i know any such console gamer, shyber was a PC gamer first then he bought the consoles, Nomad's the same, even YOU a PC gamer are seriously considering a console.
Didn't you buy a Gefore card when you already had a 360? :lol:



Battlefield 1942's sequel is a console exclusive
WHAT? o_O. I have played Battlefield 2142 on my PC :P. And before getting on the bandwagon for Battlefield 1943, take a look at Battlefield Heroes :P



how do you know diablo is better than vesperia ? have you played vesperia ? i don't think so, i on the other hand have played both the diablo games AND vesperia, hence my opinion on the subject is a lot higher valued than yours :D
So, according to your "a lot higher valued" opinion, is Tales of Vesperia a better game than Diablo 2?
Tales of Vesperia is the best JRPG of this gen so far. But that is because there hasn't been any real good JRPG this gen. Comparing it with one of the greatest games of all time is really dumb.



There are more players who play Call of Duty 4 Online on the xbox 360 ALONE, then the total number of World of Warcraft players.

secondly, we all know there are free WoW servers as well.

thirdly, WoW has free trials for first-timers as well, just like xbox live.
LOL. There have been 13 million individual profiles that have logged on LIVE for COD4. There aren't 13 million active players of COD4 on LIVE :P. Just look at Kane's example.

And all those WOW numbers are of subscribers at THAT particular time. People paying monthly for THAT particular game. Those figures don't include players playing on cracked servers. Actual number of players playing the game is a lot higher.



So, no, i don't think there's any chance that more PC people will play modern warfare 2 compared to 360 people.
If you had said that 360 version will sell more than PC version than I would have agreed with you. But there is a very good chance that total number of players actually playing the game will be higher on PC. You can't really compare user base of PC and 360.



pirated copies don't count towards actual sales,
Pirated copies don't count towards actual sales. But anybody playing the game with a pirated copy on 360 IS counted towards total number of players. While that is not the case for PC.

Kane
03-08-09, 12:04 PM
@kane, i can only look and laugh at the mess your posts are, are you trying to make yourself look like a fool ?

All i was saying in my last post that i can prove it that i got 12 profiles on xbox live!( me got 12 profiles= xbox live thinking me =12

2nd about ids why would anyone make american id if he or she is living in uk or somewhere else.From this point i wanted to say that actual no. of active live players are much less than xbox live claims(far less)

3rd what u are trying to prove from dead links or are u trying to make urself fool!

mr brilliant
03-08-09, 12:29 PM
honestly pc gamers what u want? u expecting someone to make sense who has perhaps never done it in his life.

surprising for me, the best point come from kane. if pc gaming is dying then nvidia & intel shud be running for theirs money but they r not. there billions $$$ bussiness will sink if pc gaming dies (al least for nvidia) & they hasnot said nothing like that yet.

the only gaming system close to death is ps3, due to natal. pc gaming is safe n will remain that way no matter how much braindead console fans wish against it.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:32 PM
I'll use an ancient and loved example here hasan, street fighter IV 360, native 720p simply upscaled to 1080p looked exactly the same as street fighter IV running natively on 1080p on PC according to internet comparisons.

yes lets all compare SF4 which requires a Simple Pentium 4 Processor and a 4k 3D Card to run smoothly
the Game has nothing close to be called "Good Graphics"

U wanna compare Graphics/Performance? lets just stick to COD4 or now the upcoming MW2 and Crysis2
the power of Next Gen and hi Def remains 1280X720 without AA
we need a game which pushes the hardware

Lets take an old game like Hot Pursuit 2 it wasnt released on the 360 rite BUT if it was then im betting the 360 culd run it @1920X1080 Native
u can bring a lot of crap Graphics Games and run them on the 360 and PC on same Resolution and they will look the same

But take Graphics Intensive Games and run them on PC and 360 and u will notice alot of difference ^_^

incidently 1280X720 = 1 Mega Pixel
and 1920X1080 = 2 Mega Pixel
Zameen asman ka farq hai

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 12:34 PM
besides warcraft and witcher i haven't got a single clue about what the rest of the games are lol, well i guess that's to be expected, niche PC games that no one cares about stay on the PC, where as the one's that gain popularity all jump ship eventually.

Like I said before, personal preference. The first I mentioned, Total War ... is a series continuing since 10-12 years ... now if you havent played it, or the others, or dont like 'em ... doesnt mean they dont exist, or arent good ... its just that you dont like it. A game series with around 7-8 games is still alive for a reason.

Thats to be expected from a Console ONLY guy who has never even bothered to look at the PC games.


actually, the way i'm seeing it, more PC gamers are now shifting towards console just so they can get to play the games, this includes YOU too ahsan, so yeah, sounds pretty much like you guys future proofing so you're not left with a single dying system.

So they just can get to play the "consoles exclusive" (or atleast one of the console) games. The bunch of games I named, the PC exclusives, PC gamers still play them on their systems, and they play the multiplat (PC+Consoles) on their PCs because of ... well, ask them :)

No one who is a gamer and wants to play everything is going to be satisfied with a single system. A fanboy however will be satisfied only with his single console, which he hated to the core so much that he got banned from its forum before he got it!

hasanJ
03-08-09, 12:36 PM
secondly, we all know there are free WoW servers as well.

thirdly, WoW has free trials for first-timers as well, just like xbox live.

oh bhai jan get ur fact straight

Private and Free WoW Servers r only 20% of wht Legit Offers u have to play it to know about it

and tht Free Trial u talk about iz only 10 Days yes only 10 Days with a Level Cap of 20/only few levels of Professions/No access to any ingame Features

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 12:57 PM
. So yeah, playing FPSs lying down on your back on a stretched Sofa with a gamepad is rather appealing for a guy who's tired after a day's work at the office

That couch thing is a very strange point Shyber and I didnt expect you to use that (again). I find it much more easier that I turn my PC on, see whats what on Pakgamers, check my emails ... then just double click and play. One place for two things ... ! I know you always get up on PG after office ... ! Oh and no one told u to get an office chair for your PC. I have (or had before it kinda got burned :P) a recliner ... very comfy ...!

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 01:00 PM
My point made :)
Sure, precision would be nice, but in no way the current configs hamper the fun factor in the games. FPS have nailed it on the consoles.
Nahh... you cleverly cut out the most important part. I enjoy the game for the game itself... not the movement/aiming mechanics through the gamepad. The NEED for the mouse/keyboard is always felt. Its not just aiming. The quickness in the movement just cannot be achieved with the gamepad for e.g. the extremely fast 180-deg turns. Its a nightmare most of the times. Only other aim and shoot game that can do without mouse/keyboard (not necessarily as good as mouse/kb) is GeOW...coz its not that fast to begin with.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:01 PM
no one even bothers to look at Comparisons <_<

COD Series aside they say GTA4 iz a crappy port with a lot of Performance problems

GamesSpot:

Even with all the problems, GTAIV looks better on the PC by a wide margin

u wanna argue more about Graphics?
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6202552/p-4.html

have a look through here and do look at the trees :o (The GAWD DAMN TREES yes thts next Gen HD wow )
btw lol at PS3 Version just look at the blurry mess u get for 5k

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:03 PM
@necro, 'sup brotha, no love for my posts ? :P



3rd what u are trying to prove from dead links or are u trying to make urself fool!

since your obviously too slow to try and look for things yourself.

http://www.castmedium.com/2009/05/24/major-nelson-radio-show-320-tekken-6-and-call-of-duty-modern-warfare-2/


All i was saying in my last post that i can prove it that i got 12 profiles on xbox live!( me got 12 profiles= xbox live thinking me =12


then prove it please, or shut up about it.



Pirated copies don't count towards actual sales. But anybody playing the game with a pirated copy on 360 IS counted towards total number of players. While that is not the case for PC.

I was under the impression that they can enter ranked servers, but even then you really think the number of pirated COD4 players are more or even close to the legit millions ? COD4 has sold well over 13 million units in itself and according to activision themselves the biggest portion of that is the 360 user base.


If you had said that 360 version will sell more than PC version than I would have agreed with you. But there is a very good chance that total number of players actually playing the game will be higher on PC. You can't really compare user base of PC and 360.

use base is such a wrong word to use here, you're potentially counting ANYONE who has a PC as a PC gamer, that's just wrong. I highly doubt more people on PC will play this game compared to the 360, 13 million unique IDs or not.



So, according to your "a lot higher valued" opinion, is Tales of Vesperia a better game than Diablo 2?
Tales of Vesperia is the best JRPG of this gen so far. But that is because there hasn't been any real good JRPG this gen. Comparing it with one of the greatest games of all time is really dumb.

you know what they say about opinions right ?

hell, have you even properly played through any RPG "this gen" so far ? :p you've openly admitted to not have played Oblivion, Fallout, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, etc etc ..

i guess my opinion still reigns supreme here :D



WHAT? http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/blink.gif. I have played Battlefield 2142 on my PC http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/tongue.gif. And before getting on the bandwagon for Battlefield 1943, take a look at Battlefield Heroes http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/tongue.gif

all i's know is that the followup to the critically acclaimed Battlefield 1942, which was best known for it's online, is console exclusive, that says something, don't it ?



Didn't you buy a Gefore card when you already had a 360? http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/lol.gif

oh you mean the card i bought when my internal GPU shorted out thus making my PC completely unusable ? yeah man totally makes me a PC gamer, and right on par with you already having a gaming PC but still opting to buy both the consoles.

that's totally the same thing :P




And right now I can play 14 of these games on my PC. If I only had a PS3 and 360, I would have been able to play only two of these games.






Although there have been a couple of changes in my opinion since then (Uncharted a bit higher, above RE4).

Amongst these 15 games I played 11 on my PC (N64 and PS1 games through emulator). Five of these are PC exclusives.

And right now I can play 14 of these games on my PC. If I only had a PS3 and 360, I would have been able to play only two of these games.

11 - 5 = 6 console titles plus your new heir-say for gaming aka Uncharted, still on consoles only.

yeah man, still gotta say, kinda shameful that you prance around advocating PC gaming so much, yet the majority of your best ever titles are console games.

i dunno nomad, if i were in your spot, i'd probably feel really bad about myself right now :p



I do consider Tales of Vesperia the best JRPG of this gen so far. But I don't consider it the best RPG of the past couple of years. That honor belongs to Witcher. But sadly you wouldn't know much about that as that is a PC exclusive title http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/tongue.gif

see, few points above, the point where i describe you openly admitting not having played the majority of the RPG's this generation

also, witcher was meh, they canned the lame PC port to focus on the witcher 2 obviously. Common sense bro.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:05 PM
The quickness in the movement just cannot be achieved with the gamepad for e.g. the extremely fast 180-deg turns. Its a nightmare most of the times.

100% agreed

if there was a way to play Online COD4 on 360 and PC simultaneously surely u cant argue tht the guy playing on the PC will absolutely r*p* the guyz on Consoles solely bcoz of the advantage of Mouse?
think u can Out Snipe someone whos using a mouse while ur using a gamepad?

or how about we plug in a 360 Wired Controller at the meet up
and Chandoo will do a 1v1 with Ahsan on COD4 ^_^
end the Gamepad vs Mouse thing in Real Time?

Radical
03-08-09, 01:05 PM
Thats right everybuddy, just ignore hasanj & continue on with chairs & sofas/recliners :lol:

btw the PS3 can support the keyboard & mouse controls for fps games but the devs don't do it intentionally.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:07 PM
Thats right everybuddy, just ignore hasanj & continue on with chairs & sofas/recliners http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/lol.gif

hey Radi how r u man ^_^
did u see awz0m3 PS3 Screens of GTA4 compared to the crappy PC Port? :p

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:09 PM
pop quiz hot shot.

one of the three version of GTA IV was a buggy mess at launch and required hundreds of patches to get the game to a working condition.

which one was it ?

:8

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:14 PM
pop quiz hot shot.

one of the three version of GTA IV was a buggy mess at launch and required hundreds of patches to get the game to a working condition.

which one was it ?

http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/cool.gif

the one which looks better even after being optimized for Corei7 by Rockstar
yes tht the reason it was delayed and the reason its CPU Intensive
and it still looks hell lot better than Consoles :8

btw did u notice teh trees
some ppl paid 5k for those HD Trees :8

Radical
03-08-09, 01:16 PM
did u see awz0m3 PS3 Screens of GTA4 compared to the crappy PC Port?

Read the line under yer siggy :8

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:16 PM
the people who paid 5K for it didn't even get it in HD lol, they got sub HD resolutions, the 100 rs paying people received true 720p HD graphics :8

Radical
03-08-09, 01:20 PM
& it is because of those "100 rs paying people" PS3 version looks like shit! :8

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:20 PM
Read the line under yer siggy http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/cool.gif

u mean this?

just because shit is being developed for PS3, doesn't mean PS3 is Shit!!! - write it down noobs - Radical

how iz it tht the same game "GTA4" looks better on other platforms than PS3
They made an excellent game for other platforms and purposely made a shit PS3 Version?
or iz ur statement in my sig Backwards :8

Radical
03-08-09, 01:23 PM
duh! hasan, shit = PORTS!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:24 PM
& it is because of those "100 rs paying people" PS3 version looks like shit! :8

actually it's because MS paid 50 million moolah's to ensure which console gets the superior version :8



duh! hasan, shit = PORTS!
games that are developed concurrently aren't ports radical, port is something that's released on one platform, then put on another afterwards, eg Final Fantasy XIII for the 360.

GTA IV was developed on both platforms on the same time, hence the "actual" results :8

Shyber
03-08-09, 01:25 PM
That couch thing is a very strange point Shyber and I didnt expect you to use that (again). I find it much more easier that I turn my PC on, see whats what on Pakgamers, check my emails ... then just double click and play. One place for two things ... ! I know you always get up on PG after office ... ! Oh and no one told u to get an office chair for your PC. I have (or had before it kinda got burned :P) a recliner ... very comfy ...!

Dude, as a software developer, I spend the whole day in that position in front of the PC. I got a recliner and footrest for my gaming needs, feet positioned on the rest, pushing the recliner back, tilting me to a very comfortable position for my vertebral column. Hard to understand really, I mean 9 hours of sitting on front of PC only to come to home and sit in the same position?

And I'd like you to reply to the arguments I rose about dev focus. Discussing personal preferences aren't gonna get us anywhere.


think u can Out Snipe someone whos using a mouse while ur using a gamepad?Is there a need to? I mean, you control it on the console like anyone else and can do everything the other guy can. Sure it lacks the precision, but doesn't hurt the gameplay.



I enjoy the game for the game itself That is my point bro. The game is a shooter in itself and for 10 hours you have to shoot using a gamepad and if you can still like it it means that FPSs are more than enjoyable with a gamepad too. Sure they are BETTER with KB+Mouse but the augmentation systems make the console versions with gamepad highly enjoyable - not hampering its fun factor.




if there was a way to play Online COD4 on 360 and PC simultaneously surely u cant argue tht the guy playing on the PC will absolutely r*p* the guyz on Consoles solely bcoz of the advantage of Mouse?Of course he will. Doesn't mean the guy playing the game on console with a pad with others who're too playing it with pads is having any difficulty or is not enjoying the game because of it. Yeah, mouse/kb is a better choice of controllers than gamepads for FPSs but if you include the assists and augmentations with the gamepad, the "fun" factor of the game isn't hampered in any way. Hence, it's a non-issue.

Another thing is that FPSs on PC are completely based on hardware precision measurement and are mostly without any form of assists. So using gamepad for a game on PC might not yield similar results for the same game on console, where everything is tuned to perfection because of 0 diversity in hardware.


PS: hasanJ and Radical, try not to take it in the PS3vs360 area as that'll be against the topic. PS3's strength doesn't lie in multiplat ports. Playstation hasn't been receiving the best ports since PS2 days. Nothing new here, Sony just likes to make its hardware rather non-mainstream. It's strength is in its exclusives. Even after being raped by MS, Sony's got an arguably better lineup of exclusives but let's not tread into that domain. Too subjective.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:29 PM
Yeah, mouse/kb is a better choice of controllers than gamepads for FPS

thts wht i wanted to hear :D

im not arguing tht Gamepad iz bad for FPS
im just saying Mouse/Keyboard iz Superior

Similarly u can play Racing Games with Keyboard
But in racing Games Gamepad iz Superior

lucky for PC Gamers they can use both :8
Razer Mamba + 360 Wired Controller

Radical
03-08-09, 01:29 PM
actually it's because MS paid 50 million moolah's to ensure which console gets the superior version

Yeah thats what i mean by a port, they chose 360 as their LEAD platform & just made the same thing running on other systems so..


games that are developed concurrently aren't ports

Such games ARE ports imo.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:31 PM
Yeah thats what i mean by a port, they chose 360 as their LEAD platform & just made the same thing running on other systems so..


MS paid for the exclusive content, not better performance lol, what R* got out of the system is what they managed to.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:31 PM
Such games ARE ports imo.

COD Series iz developed for PC and looks best on it
according to u then it ported to the Consoles 360/PS3
but it looks better on 360 :S
Both Versions r considered ports rite?

Radical
03-08-09, 01:33 PM
O' cmon everyone knows all multiplat games are designed around the 360 in mind :/

Nomad
03-08-09, 01:34 PM
hell, have you even properly played through any RPG "this gen" so far ? :p you've openly admitted to not have played Oblivion, Fallout, Eternal Sonata, Lost Odyssey, etc etc .
I actually played all these games but did not end them because these weren't good and I got bored. So my opinion about them not being as good as games like Diablo 2 and Witcher is based on my own personal experience.



all i's know is that the followup to the critically acclaimed Battlefield 1942, which was best known for it's online, is console exclusive, that says something, don't it ?
Followup of Battlefield 1942 was Battlefield 2142. Are you claiming that it is a console exclusive?



oh you mean the card i bought when my internal GPU shorted out thus making my PC completely unusable?
Now now Chandoo. There is no need to give excuses :D. Nobody's judging you :lol:



11 - 5 = 6 console titles plus your new heir-say for gaming aka Uncharted, still on consoles only.

yeah man, still gotta say, kinda shameful that you prance around advocating PC gaming so much, yet the majority of your best ever titles are console games.
Can you read? According to you 14 on PC and 2 on consoles means more on consoles? :mental



also, witcher was meh, they canned the lame PC port to focus on the witcher 2 obviously. Common sense bro.
Actually they cancelled the LAME CONSOLE port :P

Radical
03-08-09, 01:38 PM
hasanJ and Chandersonz, try not to take it in the PS3vs360 area as that'll be against the topic. PS3's strength doesn't lie in multiplat ports. Playstation hasn't been receiving the best ports since PS2 days. Nothing new here, Sony just likes to make its hardware rather non-mainstream. It's strength is in its exclusives. Even after being raped by MS, Sony's got an arguably better lineup of exclusives but let's not tread into that domain. Too subjective.i didn't see this in yer post earlier :p, actually thats exactly what i believe!

p.s: correction :p

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:40 PM
the console port would only have been lame because the base game is so lame, we don't want lame games on our consoles, hence we had them cancel it, and opted for gothic 4 instead ;)


Now now Chandoo. There is no need to give excuses http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif. Nobody's judging you http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/lol.gif you guys are weird, first you make fun of my 1k graphics card, now you're trying to pass it off as me entering PC gaming's realm :S


Followup of Battlefield 1942 was Battlefield 2142. Are you claiming that it is a console exclusive?dude, my math is a bit rusty but i'm pretty sure 1942 is followed by 1943, not 2142 :p

i'm trying to be a smart ass here, get it ?



I actually played all these games but did not end them because these weren't good and I got bored. So my opinion about them not being as good as games like Diablo 2 and Witcher is based on my own personal experience.

dude, for all you know the last disc of lost odyssey would have blown your mind and made you forget all about metal gear's plot twists.

but since you never finished it, you'll never know :p



Can you read? According to you 14 on PC and 2 on consoles means more on consoles? http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/common067.gifwhy are you counting emulated games as a part of PC gaming ? those games were meant to be played on consoles right ?.

well still i guess that's still a notch in console gaming that you're using your super souped up meant-for-PC-gaming PC to play console games :p.




PS: hasanJ and Radical, try not to take it in the PS3vs360 area as that'll be against the topic. PS3's strength doesn't lie in multiplat ports. Playstation hasn't been receiving the best ports since PS2 days. Nothing new here, Sony just likes to make its hardware rather non-mainstream. It's strength is in its exclusives. Even after being raped by MS, Sony's got an arguably better lineup of exclusives but let's not tread into that domain. Too subjective.

few things worth pointing out here,

sony does like to mainstream it's hardware, the ps2 is still the most mainstream console ever.

sony consoles used to get bad ports because they were relatively weaker compared to the rest of the lot, but the ps3 is supposed to be all high and mighty yet it still continues the trend, not a good sign.

etc

Shyber
03-08-09, 01:42 PM
thts wht i wanted to hear :D

im not arguing tht Gamepad iz bad for FPS
im just saying Mouse/Keyboard iz Superior


And it's a non-issue in this PC vs Console thing. The point was any game that's made for consoles is tailored around the gamepad controls and hence, their fun factor doesn't fall. I mean playing Paintball in real life isn't accurate as aiming and clicking with mouse. So that doesn't mean paintball ain't fun. :P




COD Series iz developed for PC and looks best on it
according to u then it ported to the Consoles 360/PS3
but it looks better on 360 :S
Both Versions r considered ports rite?

Oh boy...deliberate exhibition of ignorance? You're probably the few who realize that PS3's internals are radically different from mainstream PC architecture, that the 360 inclines to. Naturally the devs find it easier to work with something they're familiar with. Read my previous post's post script. And try to avoid the 360 vs PS3 discussions in this thread.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 01:44 PM
Sure they are BETTER with KB+Mouse but the augmentation systems make the console versions with gamepad highly enjoyable - not hampering its fun factor.
The tactics come afterwards, but at the end of the day its aim and shoot. And there you go... much of the stuff that makes you a better player is already being done automatically. Auto-aim is the worst thing to happen to the FPS genre.


Yeah, mouse/kb is a better choice of controllers than gamepads for FPSs but if you include the assists and augmentations with the gamepad, the "fun" factor of the game isn't hampered in any way. Hence, it's a non-issue.
I wouldn't even relate the two things together. Fun factor and skills. Fun factor might still be there, but evidently what makes you a better player is your skills...which a gamepad can never fully harness in an FPS game.


So using gamepad for a game on PC might not yield similar results for the same game on console, where everything is tuned to perfection because of 0 diversity in hardware.
True to some extent I guess. What would you say about using Xbox 360 controller on the PC for GeOW? (for which that controller is fully optimized and was built with that in mind). Im currently playing it and its exactly the same experience as I played it on a console. If you're using the X360 gamepad, then I don't think your statement holds true for any "Games for Windows" title for which every port on the PC is fully optimized to work in exactly the same way as on the X360.

And even Crysis is optimized to work with the X360 controller. It automatically detects it without any user interaction. And its a nightmare to play it with. Remember the 'Weapon Inertia' option? I have to take it way down to be able to play properly. And that my friend takes away a considerable part of the 'fun' factor.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 01:45 PM
Oh boy...deliberate exhibition of ignorance? You're probably the few who realize that PS3's internals are radically different from mainstream PC architecture, that the 360 inclines to. Naturally the devs find it easier to work with something they're familiar with. Read my previous post's post script. And try to avoid the 360 vs PS3 discussions in this thread.

alrite man i got a bit carried away
disregard it all no more PS3 vs 360
But still our argument remains : PC Version looks far better than both Consoles

reaper
03-08-09, 01:48 PM
i think every one has strayed of the topic of pc gaming dying ,, to comparing pc to consoles ,,

consoles rock theres no doubt init , ,cheap, easy to use , loads of fun (super fun)

but dat dont mean pc gaming is dying or dead ,, its just having a hard time , loads of things going against pc gaming , top 2 i can think of are piracy and global recession.

plz sHtop the fighting :) ,, kiss and make up now :P

Radical
03-08-09, 01:49 PM
But still our argument remains : PC Version looks far better than both Consoles

:lol: Ofcourse it looks better, if Peee C is unable to do even that bit, whats the use of it? :/

Shyber
03-08-09, 01:50 PM
alrite man i got a bit carried away
disregard it all no more PS3 vs 360
But still our argument remains : PC Version looks far better than both Consoles

Is GTA4 the kind of game to wait 10 months for?

For me, before playing it, NO.
After playing, couldn't care less.

Had it been a simultaneous release, this discussion would've made more sense. Otherwise, it's trollish to even THINK that multiplats are NOT best on PC. More customizations, higher res, mods, etc etc.

For GTA lovers, would they wanna miss out on the expansions? Probably not. Inclined to buy a console just for it? Why not, costs about the same as a GTX260. I'll postpone the upgrade. Got it?

Besides, why restrain the discussion to one game? Share your thought on my post, the big long one where I tried to cover it from all aspects.

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 01:51 PM
And I'd like you to reply to the arguments I rose about dev focus. Discussing personal preferences aren't gonna get us anywhere.

I said this before, more than dev focus its the console companys focus !. Oh how much we adore the Microsoft (X360) E3 conference and Sony (PS3,PSP) conference. Also its obvious that there are more legit sales on consoles than PCs, so the devs will try to milk more money.


all i's know is that the followup to the critically acclaimed Battlefield 1942,

Ignorance is bliss isnt it ? These DVDs of Battlefield 2, 2142 I have and the 2-3 expansions that exist ... they must be ... non-existant.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:52 PM
Besides, why restrain the discussion to one game? Share your thought on my post, the big long one where I tried to cover it from all aspects.dude it's not just GTA lol.

look at all them PC boys using COD as an example.

did they not see this year's e3 ? exclusive map packs for the 360 version were announced, not just maps, MAP PACKS ! lol.

so you know where to get the most complete MW2 experience, SP or MP now people.

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 01:53 PM
And try to avoid the 360 vs PS3 discussions in this thread.

For a thread that was meant to be PC Gaming ONLY has turned into a PC vs. Console fest ... I wonder why a PC gaming thread always gets overtaken by some console fanboyswho take it as a personal attack perhaps ?


did they not see this year's e3 ? exclusive map packs for the 360 version were announced, not just maps, MAP PACKS ! lol.

so you know where to get the most complete COD4 experience, SP or MP now people.

You do know that PCs CoD4 gets FREE custom based user maps ? We play MOHAA maps, CS maps and just about any other map you can think of on CoD4 PC. Even a karachi map :P ... not pay for a bunch of maps that folks gaming on the PC haev always downloaded since decades and still are ? For gods sake Chandoo, do you even know a single thing about PC gaming ?

Oooh and the CoD4 Map Pack that has as of yet come for the X360 as to my knowledge having 4 maps, are on the PC as a FREE PATCH! FREE!

The way I see it, we get dedicated online servers for CoD4 on the PC, we get tournaments on the PC, we get FREE gameplay, we get FREE maps .. that too custom made and the most popular ones ... so yea ... there you have it, the most 'complete' experience.

And im pretty sure WCG Asia 2009 concluded that the most complete CoD4 MP experience was on the PC, hence they kept the tournament on the PC!

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 01:56 PM
Otherwise, it's trollish to even THINK that multiplats are NOT best on PC. More customizations, higher res, mods, etc etc.

As far as mods and tweaks are concerned, i'd like to tell you all that Ashes Cricket 2009 Demo, which only allows us to play 3 overs per innings, has a modified .exe file (40kb only), which allows you to play 10, 20, 50, 90 or unlimited over matches. HAH! More cut-scenes, more commentary etc. Ofcourse you shouldn't get too excited for a demo, but it goes to show what can be done with the games on teh PC!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 01:57 PM
As far as mods and tweaks are concerned, i'd like to tell you all that Ashes Cricket 2009 Demo, which only allows us to play 3 overs per innings, has a modified .exe file (40kb only), which allows you to play 10, 20, 50, 90 or unlimited over matches. HAH!

WOW DUDE, THAT TOTALLY BLEW MY MIND !!

wooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo ooooooah !! :o

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 01:58 PM
WOW DUDE, THAT TOTALLY BLEW MY MIND !!

wooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooo ooooooah !! :o
Don't hate what you can't have :P

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:00 PM
dude that game looks so ancient i'm pretty sure even my relic of a PC will be able to play it properly lol

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:00 PM
Besides, why restrain the discussion to one game? Share your thought on my post, the big long one where I tried to cover it from all aspects.

i dont have much disagreements with ur long post man
said it my self PC Gaming iz like a Sinusoidal Wave :p

i dont argue about games i talk hardware capabilities
ppl saying u need 1 lac PC for Gaming and tht 1280X720 looks just as good as 1920X1080 <_<
i have 360 aswell so im not missing out of any games but the graphics offered but the said Console iz Next GEN? tht i dont buy

Games iz ahsans front xD

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:00 PM
The tactics come afterwards, but at the end of the day its aim and shoot. And there you go... much of the stuff that makes you a better player is already being done automatically. Auto-aim is the worst thing to happen to the FPS genre.


Aim assist and auto-aim are, IMO, two COMPLETELY different things. Try not to mix'em.




I wouldn't even relate the two things together. Fun factor and skills. Fun factor might still be there, but evidently what makes you a better player is your skills...which a gamepad can never fully harness in an FPS game.


Fully harness? LOL. Does it even matter? :P




And even Crysis is optimized to work with the X360 controller. It automatically detects it without any user interaction. And its a nightmare to play it with. Remember the 'Weapon Inertia' option? I have to take it way down to be able to play properly. And that my friend takes away a considerable part of the 'fun' factor.

Dude, seriously, who in his right mind would use a gamepad for PC games when they can use a KB/Mouse? Specially in online modes, any idiot playing a PC FPS with a pad will royally get pwned against KB/Mouse users. This isn't meant to be decided in head to head manner. But in a manner that whether console FPS games suffer just because of gamepads?

I mean, before I played Resistance2 and Killzone2, I was thinking about buying the Splitfish KB/Mouse controller for the PS3. By the time the stocks refilled, I had played those games to a level where I was feeling extremely comfortable with the pad and there was no problem of any sort that hampered the gameplay to any degree!

My only issue is that this is a non-issue when talking about the decline of PC gaming.



For a thread that was meant to be PC Gaming ONLY has turned into a PC vs. Console fest ... I wonder why a PC gaming thread always gets overtaken by some console fanboyswho take it as a personal attack perhaps ?

Yaar if you had read my post, then I trid to discuss the reasons iteratively that might've caused the "decline" of PC gaming. Consoles are made a part of this discussion just to establish a scale against which the decline or climb of PC gaming can be measured.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:01 PM
dude that game looks so ancient i'm pretty sure even my relic of a PC will be able to play it properly lol
OMG...a console gamer who cares about graphics (lmao)

Nomad
03-08-09, 02:02 PM
pop quiz hot shot.

one of the three version of GTA IV was a buggy mess at launch and required hundreds of patches to get the game to a working condition.

which one was it ?

:8
Hmmm... difficult :confused:

Do you mean the version which had A LOT of graphical bugs and did not run smooth at all when it was released. The version which became playable after a new firmware was launched (many months after the game was released) and you had to copy the full game on HDD to make it run smoothly.
If that's what you meant than I totally agree with you :D


the people who paid 5K for it didn't even get it in HD lol, they got sub HD resolutions, the 100 rs paying people received true 720p HD graphics :8
LOL Chandoo, you forgot. This is a PC bashing thread :P Save this for your anti PS3 discussions :P


the console port would only have been lame because the base game is so lame, we don't want lame games on our consoles, hence we had them cancel it, and opted for gothic 4 instead ;)
LOL. So according to you you didn't like Witcher and were so impressed with Gothic 3 that you prefer to have its next part instead of Witcher :lol:. If you had any idea about Gothic you would not have said that :P


why are you counting emulated games as a part of PC gaming ? those games were meant to be played on consoles right ?
I can play those games on my PC, and not on my PS3 or 360. So my PC let's me play 14 of my favorite 15 games. Does it even matter where they were released? Where I can play them is what matters to me.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:03 PM
wat ? :S my PC is certainly not the pioneer in computer graphics lol, i was poking fun at the game's ancient tech.

i'm pretty sure you yourself commented on how piss poor the game looked on a previous preview topic as well .. we don't play cricket games for the graphics lol, we play them because there hasn't been a new one for fucking YEARS now.




Do you mean the version which had A LOT of graphical bugs and did not run smooth at all when it was released. The version which became playable after a new firmware was launched (many months after the game was released) and you had to copy the full game on HDD to make it run smoothly.
If that's what you meant than I totally agree with you http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/biggrin.gifPS3 version ?

yeah i guess :p

since the 360 version i have runs perfectly fine off of the disc, and has loading benefits when installed OPTIONALLY, unlike the other two platforms where the installs are mandatory :8 and take hours which you could spend PLAYING the damn game :8



I can play those games on my PC, and not on my PS3 or 360. So my PC let's me play 14 of my favorite 15 games. Does it even matter where they were released? Where I can play them is what matters to mebut that's just it, isn't it ?

console games being emulated contribute nothing towards the dying "state of PC gaming".

again, you're talking about the games that have been widely available on consoles for years upon years, which PC people are just getting a hang of, sounds familiar doesn't it ? :p

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:03 PM
Dude, seriously, who in his right mind would use a gamepad for PC games when they can use a KB/Mouse?
Ummm just to check perhaps? You think I play online with it? or even single player for that matter? Why so serious? lol ANyway this is off-topic waise bhi. Discussion over.

Radical
03-08-09, 02:04 PM
For a thread that was meant to be PC Gaming ONLY has turned into a PC vs. Console festPC gaming is dying why? because of console gaming THATS THE POINT!, btw no one is denying the PC hacks, cheats, mods or whatever BUT the point is they get what we get ALOT earlier than them, those games are just pretty versions of console games, the DEVS have started to focus on multiplat programming NOW! & hence the PC ONLY! wonders like Crysis on CryEngine 2 would DIE soon enough!

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:07 PM
the PC ONLY! wonders like Crysis on CryEngine 2 would DIE soon enough!

thts just ignorance man u think they will stop at CryEngine 3?
when both 360/PS3 reach teh end of their life wht will devs do?
they will shift their "Dukaan" to the PC until the next Generation of Consoles arrive

thts the ups and downs of PC Gaming

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:08 PM
Yaar if you had read my post, then I trid to discuss the reasons iteratively that might've caused the "decline" of PC gaming. Consoles are made a part of this discussion just to establish a scale against which the decline or climb of PC gaming can be measured

If anything, with online gaming on the consoles and all ... its as though the PC is still where its at .... and consoles finally catching up. Exclusives are being traded on both sides so thats an equal


& hence the PC ONLY! wonders like Crysis on CryEngine 2 would DIE soon enough!
__________________

Lol dude ... CryEngine 2, Crysis and Warehead arent coming on the consoles. And by your logic, the PS3 is as good as dead with FF and MGS now being multiplatform. PS3 dead now ? Im only using your logic. And check the previous pages for a bit more games apart from Crysis, games that you have no knowledge about because you simply dont have a PC to begin with.

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:09 PM
ppl saying u need 1 lac PC for Gaming


Probably trying to compare with a PC that offers hassle free gaming and lasts for a generation. By that scale, it makes sense.



and tht 1280X720 looks just as good as 1920X1080 <_<


Ahahahaha. That's a good one. But I think it depends on the screen. I mean, a 19" LCD will make 720p look as good as 1080p as it'll downscale 1080p to 720p physical pixels. Same can be said for a 720p HDTV. Most mainstream displays used for game today don't have 1080p physical pixels.

19" LCDs are most common, are 720p (got a few extra pixels though).
22 inchers fall a li'l short of the 1080p mark though we do have some 1080p ones around. But cramping 2Mega pixels into 22 diagonal inches is not really as cool as 720P on a 32" HDTV. Normally, in the mainstream scale, a 32 incher HDTV is what follows after a 22" LCD.

Still, the more the merrier :lol:
1080p will always be > 720p. It's a no brainer. How much effect does that have on the user experience is a wholly different story though.



i have 360 aswell so im not missing out of any games but the graphics offered but the said Console iz Next GEN? tht i dont buy


Define next gen.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:11 PM
Probably trying to compare with a PC that offers hassle free gaming and lasts for a generation. By that scale, it makes sense. WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS, THE ADMIN HAS SPOKEN :D PC gaming costs 1 lakh rupees.

end of discussion i guess ? all points after this will be disregarded. The admin's word is absolute, end of argument :8

Radical
03-08-09, 02:13 PM
I don't have a PC to begin with because all the games i want to play are on consoles & i didn't buy PS3 because it is the most powerful console but because it had/still has some games that i want to play, you are MISSING my point completely! by Crysis & CryEngine 2 i mean total dev support & attention towards all those SLI & tripple SLI configurations with those honking CPU's & Rams.

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:17 PM
it's trollish to even THINK that multiplats are NOT best on PC. More customizations, higher res, mods, etc etc.


WELL THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS, THE ADMIN HAS SPOKEN PC gaming costs 1 lakh rupees.

end of discussion i guess ? all points after this will be disregarded. The admin's word is absolute, end of argument

Yes ... sure. Whatever you say! :D


I don't have a PC to begin with because all the games i want to play are on consoles & i didn't buy PS3 because it is the most powerful console but because it had/still has some games that i want to play,

So its just your personal preference.


y Crysis & CryEngine 2 i mean total dev support &

And now the PS3 dev support has died out too hasnt it ? MGS and FF on PC/X360 ... PS3 is dead ... ! Dev support khtm! Im just using your logic again!

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:18 PM
If anything, with online gaming on the consoles and all ... its as though the PC is still where its at .... and consoles finally catching up.


Oh I used to think so too. Jump into the online arena with console gaming and you'll realize too. Sure the gaming competitions are based around PC games but then again, they use DOTA and CS1.6 <_<

Console online gaming is doing everything PC does, added benefit of hassle free setup and at the comfort of your couch (I love poking this point at ya :lol: ) and only place they're lacking are online gaming arenas for competitions. Pretty soon that's gonna be changed too. Or probably it doesn't need to. Sure, there are Test matches but we enjoy 20/20 more ;)



Exclusives are being traded on both sides so thats an equalOh no no no no my dear. That is so wrong. It's FAR from equal. In fact, this is the thing that's really making or breaking the PC presence. Gimme a list of big time PC only games circa 2006-11.



And now the PS3 dev support has died out too hasnt it ? MGS and FF on PC/X360 ... PS3 is dead ... ! Dev support khtm! Im just using your logic again!Actually, that's a pretty poor interpretation of a valid logic. Does PC have anyone near the skillset of Naughty Dogs, Isomniac, Sony Santa Monica, David Jaffe, Ueda, Polyphony Digital, etc working EXCLUSIVELY for it?

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:21 PM
Probably trying to compare with a PC that offers hassle free gaming and lasts for a generation. By that scale, it makes sense.

no comment -.-
:(


Define next gen.


i was told in 2005 in many articles tht the "Next Gen" Consoles will give 1920X1080
i said wtf really? PC nay kya dya? 7800GTX manages 1600X1200 and costs a lot and these consoles can do even higher?

then i realized 1280X720 no AA @ 30FPS ^_^

i have 19inch LCD 1440X900 Resolution
1280X720 on it looks jaggy tbh and wht good my 360 do on it? no AA to cover up the Jagginess and 30FPS to boot
i play TF2 @ 80FPS average and personally feel 30FPS just playable
wish Gears of War was 60FPS <_<

Point iz PCs of 2005 r capable of 1280X720 although now 1920X1080 iz a normal for mainstream PC Hardware

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:23 PM
Probably trying to compare with a PC that offers hassle free gaming and lasts for a generation. By that scale, it makes sense.
Shyber you of all people have an idea about hardware, so that comment is quite shocking. I mean, what would a Rs. 1 lakh PC have that will make it more hassle free than say, a 30k PC?

As for lasting generations, my E6550, 2GB ram, 7900GTX can still play all the multiplatform games, since 2006. Im pretty sure it can serve me well for another year or two. 5 years isn't enough? And no it didn't cost me Rs. 1 lakh..if I remember correctly, it was about Rs. 28k max. Could be less but not more than that.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:23 PM
1280X720 on it looks jaggy tbh and wht good my 360 do on it? no AA to cover up the Jagginess and 30FPS to boot

you realize the lack or presence of AA is not the console's fault and depends on the games ? some games support 4xmsaa, most games on the 360 support 2x MSAA, the number of games that don't have any AA at all is very few.

Radical
03-08-09, 02:24 PM
LoL you not getting any of it :D, ok in simple words, we the console gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Crysis 2 on CryEngine 3 on our Cheap consoles without having to buy EXPENSIVE PC's (y)

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:25 PM
Console online gaming is doing everything PC does,

No tournaments, no custom based user maps, no game mods, no dedicated personal servers ... not doing everything, definately not.


Sure the gaming competitions are based around PC games but then again, they use DOTA and CS1.6

WCG Asia 2009 has CoD4 mate! Games like Counter Strike Source ... TF2 ... RA3 ... they are in competitions! There is seriously loads out there.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:25 PM
LoL you not getting any of it :D, ok in simple words, we the console gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Crysis 2 on CryEngine 3 on our Cheap consoles without having to buy EXPENSIVE PC's (y)

and SOME of us won't be paying 5000 rs for it :D


WCG Asia 2009 has CoD4 mate! Games like Counter Strike Source ... TF2 ... RA3 ... they are in competitions! There is seriously loads out there.

WCG 2009 has CS 1.6, StarCraft 1, Warcraft 3 and such.

ancient games ahsan, stop touting WCG so much lol, WCG has always been a PC-only event that console games are now infiltrating as well.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:27 PM
you realize the lack or presence of AA is not the console's fault and depends on the games ? some games support 4xmsaa, most games on the 360 support 2x MSAA, the number of games that don't have any AA at all is very few.

its the consoles fault man
even 2xAA Requires a lot of GPU muscle as it cuts FPS in near about Half
COD4 supports AA on PC but not on Consoles?
2xAA on COD4 on consoles will mean no solid 60FPS

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:28 PM
WCG 2009 has CS 1.6, StarCraft 1, Warcraft 3 and such.

Do you even read ? I guess not ... I said ... WCG ASIA .. hell I played in the nationals for WCG Asia on CoD4 last year!

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:28 PM
its the consoles fault man
even 2xAA Requires a lot of GPU muscle as it cuts FPS in near about Half
COD4 supports AA on PC but not on Consoles?
2xAA on COD4 on consoles will mean no solid 60FPS
I think the console version of COD4 is running at 60fps. Don't know why coz 30fps should've been enough, for them, right? ;) But they achieved those frames by making the game a measly 600p, which is not impressive at all. I mean, any other game is doing more than that even on the consoles.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:29 PM
LoL you not getting any of it http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/biggrin.gif, ok in simple words, we the console gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Crysis 2 on CryEngine 3 on our Cheap consoles without having to buy EXPENSIVE PC's http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/41.gif

Post like these r the reason PS3 has to get dragged in <_<

dont blame me Shyber but
40k Console +5k Game iz cheap and u get 1280X720? :S
thts Cheap but PC iz expensive? :S

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:30 PM
no comment -.-
:(


It's an exaggeration and can be argued upon. Thing is, it's not something to be compared.




i was told in 2005 in many articles tht the "Next Gen" Consoles will give 1920X1080
i said wtf really? PC nay kya dya? 7800GTX manages 1600X1200 and costs a lot and these consoles can do even higher?

then i realized 1280X720 no AA @ 30FPS ^_^

i have 19inch LCD 1440X900 Resolution
1280X720 on it looks jaggy tbh and wht good my 360 do on it? no AA to cover up the Jagginess and 30FPS to boot
i play TF2 @ 80FPS average and personally feel 30FPS just playable
wish Gears of War was 60FPS <_<

Point iz PCs of 2005 r capable of 1280X720 although now 1920X1080 iz a normal for mainstream PC Hardware

So resolution and FPSs are all that define next gen for you?
About the 30FPS or 60FPS thing. That's another complicated issue which is rather hard to explain but I'll try again none the less. Let's say you got to animate an object. A leg, from example in a walking animation, has to go from point A to B in one second. If you know from the get go that you're working on a "30FPS" game, you'll ensure that the frame count in that animation heirarchy is 28-30, smoothly positioned after calculating the key frames. The result is butter smooth animation even if the game is doing 30FPS.

Now if the same set is executed at twice the speed, it'll be overkill and give an effect of "fast forwarding." Though similarly a game designed for 60FPS will appear to lag if the machine is chugging 30renders per sec.

This is another non issue that PC gamers talk about all the time. Sure, FPSs mean a lot during benches where more FPS defines a more powerful GPU but that doesn't necessarily mean the game's quality is being affected. Just like the "1 Lac gaming PC" is an exageration against PC gamers, the "limited to 30FPS" is an exageration against consoles.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 02:31 PM
its the consoles fault man
even 2xAA Requires a lot of GPU muscle as it cuts FPS in near about Half
COD4 supports AA on PC but not on Consoles?
2xAA on COD4 on consoles will mean no solid 60FPS

console versions DO have AA.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/x360-vs-ps3-face-off-round-six-article

Radical
03-08-09, 02:34 PM
So resolution and FPSs are all that define next gen for you?

(lmao) yes he is pretty much stuck in them :p , he actually claims Crysis on 20k! Peee C looks & is better than UC 2 :D

hasanJ
03-08-09, 02:36 PM
So resolution and FPSs are all that define next gen for you?

basically? Yes
Games to PS2 pay bhi thay bohat saray Exclusive and Multiplats
i seriously though PC Hardware will get owned by PS3/360 seriously


@ Chandoo


Both versions are also operating at a sub-HD resolution - 1024x600 to be precise

yes 1024X600 my 4k Card can pull tht resolution <_<

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 02:37 PM
he "limited to 30FPS" is an exageration against consoles.

Not to USUF ... he said he felt the change in the gameplay from 30fps to 60fps in GeOW to CoD4. Mind you, its just not how the game looks ... its the feel and the responce to your controller. 60Hz on the monitor and 85Hz on the monitor make a huge difference to how your mouse moves.

Try it!

Also if 30fps was good enough, devs would have never targetted 60fps and instead gone for Full HD resolutions and such. But they opt for 60fps ... maybe because games animated at 60fps just look nicer ? And btw, Ive never noticed any game look "fast forwarded" even if im at 100FPS (my mintor supports 100Hz as well)

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:41 PM
Now if the same set is executed at twice the speed, it'll be overkill and give an effect of "fast forwarding." Though similarly a game designed for 60FPS will appear to lag if the machine is chugging 30renders per sec.
That is as accurate as the explanation can get. And I totally agree with you about the science behind it. But Its not overkill. Its just...optimal. Why would dev bother putting out 60fps games on consoles then?

This is another non issue that PC gamers talk about all the time. Sure, FPSs mean a lot during benches where more FPS defines a more powerful GPU but that doesn't necessarily mean the game's quality is being affected. Just like the "1 Lac gaming PC" is an exageration against PC gamers, the "limited to 30FPS" is an exageration against consoles.
Oh boy..not this issue. Not again. If its 30fps because they strive for a more 'cinematic' feel, then it should be 24fps, no? Afterall all movies are running at that too. Cut-scenes, CGI videos are all running at 30fps and THEY SHOULD. But not the actual gameplay. In so many games, racing, sports and othesr, the replays and cut-scenes are locked at 30fps for a cinematic feel. But not the in-game gameplay itself. If 30fps was all that was required and was necessary, why didn't the dev lock the frame rate on the PC as well?

And yeah.. try the method Ahsan told you. It works if you wana see and feel the difference.

Whatever the science behind it, 60fps is optimal and feels much much more smoother than 30fps. Anyone who is fortunate enough to play all games at that frame rate wouldn't disagree.

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:42 PM
Shyber you of all people have an idea about hardware, so that comment is quite shocking. I mean, what would a Rs. 1 lakh PC have that will make it more hassle free than say, a 30k PC?

Hahaha. Dude, try to position yourself as someone who doesn't know hardware tweakings etc. You'd want to run the games at its very highest settings for 5 years, 1080p >60FPS. Do it one time, or gradual upgrades during those years, the cost does go up. Probably not 1Lac.
Anyways, I was just trying to make sense outta something you guys deemed completely pointless.

Personally, I feel like gaming is in fact an expensive luxury. Hey, if you can't pay, don't play. Whining won't get you the dimes ;)
Even the cheapest of the cheapest HD gaming setup costs above 15K. Be it consoles or PC. Ask certain people what 15000Rs means to them. So price is another non-issue. Don't get so touched when am trying to make sense for both sides :P



No tournaments, no custom based user maps, no game mods, no dedicated personal servers ... not doing everything, definately not.

Awh my dear Ahsan. I'd love to answer this but you definitely need to know more before arguing. Dude, you think I can't realize those? I'm an older gamer than you probably been through everything and I actually see consoles doing ALL THAT. There are custom tournament creations, international tournaments anyone can be a part of, some games got map editors, more game mods vareity than even PCs, own hosting capabilities without even need to port forward on your console's IP.

Thing is, you need to know more before jumping. Times have changed drastically since the PS2 days. Online ground is even.

Ranger Taffles
03-08-09, 02:47 PM
My first game ever was on PC............without PC games will never be the same.........PC is ALIVE!!!

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 02:49 PM
'one mans trash is another man's treasure'

I've mentioned this enough times on the forums that gaming is a luxury, not a necessity, and shelling out even Rs. 15k-20k for a console is WHOLE LOTTTAAA money. And an average Paki cannot afford that. For some people even rs.50k is NOTHING. We have enough examples on here at PG.

Radical
03-08-09, 02:51 PM
Personally, I feel like gaming is in fact an expensive luxury. Hey, if you can't pay, don't play. Whining won't get you the dimes Thats right! so i don't wanna hear stupid comments like " Hey Dude, how many blru ray games do you have? What! only 1, LoL Dude" :/ & "I can play a gazillion games in that price" :/ or "I can buy a FREAKIN car if i want by selling 25-30 blurays" :/ :/http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/wink.gif

Nomad
03-08-09, 02:54 PM
LoL you not getting any of it :D, ok in simple words, we the console gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Crysis 2 on CryEngine 3 on our Cheap consoles without having to buy EXPENSIVE PC's (y)
LoL you not getting any of it :D, ok in simple words, we the PC gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Metal Gear on our piracy friendly, in warranty, PCs without having to buy EXPENSIVE blurays (y)

:P

@Shyber

The topic is "Is PC gaming dying?". Members were challenged to come up with arguments to prove this statement wrong. Now you are trying very hard to prove anybody wrong who is in favor of PC and is trying proving this statement wrong. While I haven't seen anything from you against people clearly being console fanboys (while they shouldn't have any business here).

Now, just make one thing clear "Do you believe that PC gaming is dying?" (note: Not on top =/= Dying).

I need this clarification before changing direction of my cannons :P

Radical
03-08-09, 02:56 PM
LoL you not getting any of it :D, ok in simple words, we the PC gamers CAN & WILL enjoy your Metal Gear on our piracy friendly, in warranty, PCs without having to buy EXPENSIVE blurays (y)

:P

Most Welcome! :D

Shyber
03-08-09, 02:57 PM
i seriously though PC Hardware will get owned by PS3/360 seriously


Nah, you were being naive my friend, if you thought that. For me, the next gen came with "cinematic" gameplay, how the settings were more dynamic, how characters had more life to their movements, how the lip syncs were accurate, how you can truly feel the emotions on their faces and how the line between gameplay and cinematics blurred. I really love it when devs use in game engines for cutscenes, helps maintain the flow.




Also if 30fps was good enough, devs would have never targetted 60fps and instead gone for Full HD resolutions and such. But they opt for 60fps ... maybe because games animated at 60fps just look nicer ? And btw, Ive never noticed any game look "fast forwarded" even if im at 100FPS (my mintor supports 100Hz as well)


That is as accurate as the explanation can get. And I totally agree with you about the science behind it. But Its not overkill. Its just...optimal. Why would dev bother putting out 60fps games on consoles then?

Whatever the science behind it, 60fps is optimal and feels much much more smoother than 30fps. Anyone who is fortunate enough to play all games at that frame rate wouldn't disagree.

Look, I never said 30FPS and 60FPS are equivalent. There's difference, anyone can note it. Devs always target 60FPS because the more frames you can use for a single animation, the smoother it looks. That's called optimizing a game for 60FPS. BUT if a game is optimized for 30 frames, it'll look as good as anything and doesn't hamper quality by any means.

A 60FPS game running at 60FPS will look smoother than a 30 FPS game running at 60FPS
A 30FPS game running at 60FPS will look faster than a 30FPS game running at 30FPS.
A 30FPS game running at 30FPS will look perfect.
A 30FPS game running less than 30FPS will appear choppy.
A 60FPS game running less than 60FPS will appear laggy.

If a game is made for 30FPS, it doesn't matter if that game is run at 60FPS. But varies from game to game. I mean, Devil May Cry, Street Figher 4, etc are games that are hellota more fun he faster they're running - the arcadish feel that's been generated.

So 60FPS is better because it can allow for either very fast movement or very detailed animations. But after looking at the kind of animations Uncharted2 is pulling off at 30FPS, I'm wondering if 60FPS is even important anymore :P

Shyber
03-08-09, 03:07 PM
Now, just make one thing clear "Do you believe that PC gaming is dying?" (note: Not on top =/= Dying).

I need this clarification before changing direction of my cannons :P


I would answer that, but only if I hadn't already. Shows you how you don't read my important posts <_<

Am actually waiting for someone to make an argument out of it but all I've seen are lame attacks from PC gamers and console gamers on each other. Only necro talked with me on that bit.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 03:09 PM
But how can you tell what a game is targetted at by looking at the end result? Im talking about PC here. Can you tell me how much frame rate was Crysis made for?

To be honest, im getting sick of these frame rates/resolutions discussions. The answers are obvious to any gamer.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 03:20 PM
Not to USUF ... he said he felt the change in the gameplay from 30fps to 60fps in GeOW to CoD4.what the hell lol, COD4 and Gears are two completely different paced games, of course it's going to FEEL different if you go from one of them to another. One is a balls-to-the-walls action shooter and the other is a stop-and-pop cover game.

seriously ahsan, you suck at arguments :p


But how can you tell what a game is targetted at by looking at the end result?

look at the pacing of the game, eg bioshock is a FPS (which COD4 is as well) but bioshock works super awesome on 30, because it's not a frantic paced game.

Shyber
03-08-09, 03:27 PM
But how can you tell what a game is targetted at by looking at the end result? Im talking about PC here. Can you tell me how much frame rate was Crysis made for?



Crysis seems to be 30FPS, with animation sequences having 15frames :lol:
j/k



To be honest, im getting sick of these frame rates/resolutions discussions. The answers are obvious to any gamer.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, would anyone complain about UC2 not being 60FPS?

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 03:51 PM
All right enough guys. Can we all agree to disagree on irrelevant discussions to the topic like frame rates and resolutions and gamepad/mouse/kb? Its all very subjective. I don't mind playing an exclusive at 30fps, who in his right mind wouldn't play GOW3 or Uncharted 2 coz its stuck at 30fps? But when im given the choice, I'd rather play the multi-platform game on my PC.
hell, I would replay the shit out of Uncharted 2 or GOW3 at 60fps, sadly you can't get everything in life :P

OTT;

PC gaming has taken the back seat. Now if you decipher that as 'being dead' or 'dying', then I call you hopeless in the kindest of words. If I were to step in any devs shoes, even I wouldn't rule out the consoles (hell, we all wana make money off gamers everywhere b*itches). I will make multi-platform games and try my best to push PC beyond its limits as well. Sadly, easier said than done, and its not a one man's decision as well. Way too much work on the PC, takes alot of time and then you lose revenue coz of piracy. [PC]Companies who can take a shot at that (Crytek) will end up wow'ing you beyond belief. Its complex, hard work and costs shit loads of money. Guerilla Games (KZ2), Naughty Dog (Uncharted), Kojima Prod. (MGS4) and Quantic Dream, Remedy, EPIC games SCEA etc etc take hell alot of a time to get the best out of the hardware to make some of the best games out there. It takes years to put out a game of that caliber. While you can also get games like Wolverine Origins which are out before you even know it. :P

Point is, console gaming for the time being is the new kid on the block, and with time it will start showing its age. Til then, unless we get a game from any dev who is bold enough to fight piracy or is a die-hard PC gaming maniac, we will keep on getting the best version of the multi-platform games with late releases (which don't bother me all that much), and will have to settle with the consoles for exclusives which are too damn good to pass by (Sony welcomes you). But I repeat, this does not mean PC gaming is going down, but rather staying still and not moving ahead (lets see what Crysis 2 has in store for us). Media-whore would disagree, but there are still killer exclusives to be found on the PC we well. Dawn of War, Diablo, Sims 3, Empire: Total War, Sins of a Solar Empire etc. i can go on and on, but these are epic titles as well that fans of the genre cannot ignore and something consoles cannot provide. If you haven't heard about these games, then don't bother calling yourself a gamer. You guys have no idea what you're missing.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 04:13 PM
wait, so having really late releases isn't an issue but people who haven't heard of some niche PC only games that haven't really had much widespread acclaim or fame (obviously not talking about diablo, starcraft etc) aren't gamers now ?

quite a lot of subject-ism there, no ? for most people the delay is a pretty big deal.

You're right about PC gaming being at a stand still right now, and that's the problem because most people expect PC gaming to pick up and get unique PC-only stuff at the end of a console cycle, but then again we've already been told by pretty much every development house that this generation is expected to last longer than usual, in-part because of recession. Hence the opportunity for higher tech stuff is still going to be there for PC, but most of the development focus is still going to remain on the consoles.

if crysis 2 turns out right, expect crytek to whore the hell out of cryengine 3 for commercial use to other companies, and with high tec stuff like that only getting tweaked for improvement, even consoles aren't going to lag behind as far as tech goes.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 04:15 PM
Dude I said its not an issue for me, I don't speak for everyone. (late releases that is)
Even if I can't play it on a console...I have many other things to invest my time in than whining about an earlier release ;)

Chandoo
03-08-09, 04:17 PM
you don't 'whine' about an earlier release, you 'PLAY' an earlier release ;)

i guess you whine if you're not getting said earlier release :p.

and again, that's still a lot of subjectism, even on my part i agree, but saying that console diehards who may not have heard of some niche PC titles are not worthy of being called gamers, a wee bit too much.

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 04:20 PM
You get the point dont you? That I wouldn't be whining that PC gaming is 'dead' bla bla just coz I can't play an earlier release. Anyway...

Nomad
03-08-09, 04:36 PM
I would answer that, but only if I hadn't already. Shows you how you don't read my important posts <_<
:lol:
Getting angry :P

LOL. This what your argument was


Ok, let's put it this way. If Crytek hadn't targeted going multiplatform and capitalized on taking the CryEngine2 to a truly next generation of visuals and physics besting DMM and Euphoria putting DX11 to its knees. They didn't. They decided to "optimize" their engine so that it can be used on consoles. Same goes for Carmack's ID tech 5.

If the devs had focused on PC gaming like Crytek did in 2007, then the consoles would've started to look considerably outdated already.


And also to my argument <_<
I did not ignore your argument. I dicussed all this in detail in some previous threads and didn't want to repeat myself. I thought as you were active in those threads you would have remembered what I said :(
Shows you how you don't remember my important words of wisdom <_<
:lol:

If you don't want to find it yourself than here it is.

CryEngine 3 announcement thread (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/general-gaming/25796-crytek-announces-cry-engine-3-works-ps3-360-well.html#post304149)

To be honest it's a sad news. The game/engine developer which used to set standards for others to follow is now going backwards.

Don't get me wrong, it is a good news for console owners. They will be able to get much better looking games now. But I'm talking about the gaming industry as a whole. Farcry introduced DirectX9 and set the standard for graphics and open ended gameplay in its time. Crysis was the poster child of DirectX10 and is still the best looking game. Looks like there will be no such step forward when DirectX11 is launched. CryEngine 3 is going to be less powerful then CryEngine 2 which is a strange and sad development.

On the other hand I'm happy that we will finally be able to play better looking games on consoles. As good as Unreal Engine 3 was, it is now pretty outdated.

CryEngine 3 console performance update (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/general-gaming/26892-cry-engine-3-console-performance-update-killzone-bitch-fest-your-choice-2.html#post319692)

It will extend life of current consoles (X360 and PS3) as there will be better looking games on the same hardware.

But it's not only the console owners who will benefit from this. PC gamers will get better graphics using their existing systems. Whenever any new GPU is reviewed I go directly to the page about Crysis performance as this is the only game where GPU performance matters as far as I'm concerned. With CryEngine 3 our current GPUs like 9600GT/9800GT/4850 will be good enough for next few years and there won't be any need to upgrade them in near future.

But it's not only about getting better performance. I think many console games using CryEngine 3 will be released on PC simply because the PC version already exists. There won't be much time or effort required for PC release of a console game. It will only be a marketing decision after that. So we can expect many console type games on PC due to scalability of CryEngine 3.

PS3 owners will also benefit from this. Currently Xbox360 is the lead platform in most (almost all) of the multiplatform games. Due to developer laziness some of those games perform slightly worse on PS3. But when using CryEngine 3 that will no longer be a factor.

As far as X360 owners are concerned, they will get games that look better than anything else on the platform (on all consoles as far as I'm concerned). PS3 owners will continue to debate about different aspects of Killzone 2

Let's hope that developers adopt quickly and use CryEngine 3 for their future projects.

Satisfied? :P

Shyber
03-08-09, 04:39 PM
I think the problem is that PC is losing its advantages over consoles a little too quickly. First it was the lacking of genres on consoles, then lack of mainstream media functionalities, then the lack of online gaming. All that's been taken care of.

It has all come down to exclusives. Now PC centric devs are shifting gears to more multiplatform and open development style and there's hardly anyone right now taking the PC to its max potential. Obviously, with the advancement of technology, game development costs have sky-rocketed and sales on PC doesn't produce adequate returns. If this trend continues the remainder PC only devs might jump ships too. I mean c'maan, it's all about the money.

So is PC gaming dying? No way. Gaming on PC is eternal. Consoles will be forgotten about and there'd still be gaming. One console will succeed another. However, PC gaming's identity might die. When it's no longer being focused as the lead platform and getting months old ports from consoles then yeah, the trend will shift to consoles more.

For some games I don't mind the wait. But there are many games that are must play on release.

Shyber
03-08-09, 04:41 PM
:lol:
Getting angry :P

LOL. This what your argument was




I did not ignore your argument. I dicussed all this in detail in some previous threads and didn't want to repeat myself. I thought as you were active in those threads you would have remembered what I said :(
Shows you how you don't remember my important words of wisdom <_<
:lol:

If you don't want to find it yourself than here it is.

CryEngine 3 announcement thread (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/general-gaming/25796-crytek-announces-cry-engine-3-works-ps3-360-well.html#post304149)


CryEngine 3 console performance update (http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/general-gaming/26892-cry-engine-3-console-performance-update-killzone-bitch-fest-your-choice-2.html#post319692)


Satisfied? :P

LOL ok. :D
Yeah. All you had to say was that I agree with you Shyber, you're right. It's a pity that state of the art trend setters like Crytek and Carmack are now more concerned about tuning older tech to inferior hardware. Tells you about the importance of PC gaming in the eyes of (money hungry) devs...

hasanJ
03-08-09, 04:45 PM
PC aint gonna die
unless Valve and Blizzard die :8

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 04:49 PM
Tells you about the importance of PC gaming in the eyes of (money hungry) devs...
[Crytek]They're stupid... I guess they thought if we make a game so awesome even the pirates might consider paying for it (lmao)

Shyber
03-08-09, 05:02 PM
[Crytek]They're stupid... I guess they thought if we make a game so awesome even the pirates might consider paying for it (lmao)

LOL.
The funny thing is, when they whined about their "poor" sales they were like "People can buy 500$ GPUs to play this game but not pay up 50$?"

GOLD. (lmao)

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 05:30 PM
Online ground is even.

Free > Payed.

Nuff said.

Shyber
03-08-09, 05:34 PM
Free > Payed.

Nuff said.

All my online console gaming sessions have had been on PSN and I don't recall paying anything for that.

hasanJ
03-08-09, 05:41 PM
All my online console gaming sessions have had been on PSN and I don't recall paying anything for that.

yes but 1 Game on the PS3 costs more than 13 Months XboxLIVE subscription :D

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 05:44 PM
All my online console gaming sessions have had been on PSN and I don't recall paying anything for that.

Except for the game itself ... didnt cost much did it ? PSN isnt used as much as XBLive ... all ive heard in this thread on console online is CoD4 X360 ... which you pay for. Or if you plan to use PSN, you pay quite a heavy amount. On the PC ... the games are free and so is the online gameplay.

Online gaming on consoles is possible and obviously works, but the PC still has the advantage with mods, maps etc. ... and if anything, online gaming on the PC has risen as you can now see multiple servers for multiple games here in Pakistan. Remember the topic here is "Is PC gaming dying" ... I dont see any online player moving to conosle only, you yourself are in the TF2 clan for PC as well as KZ2 on PSN. If the console online gaming had made the PC "die" ... you wouldnt be touching TF2.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 06:22 PM
lol @ signature ahsan, getting a little desperate for attention ? :P


Shyber = PC gaming costs 1 lac rupees
Chandoo = The admin's word is absolute, end of argumentshouldn't that be the line in your sig ? :p



Except for the game itself ... didnt cost much did it ? PSN isnt used as much as XBLive ... all ive heard in this thread on console online is CoD4 X360 ... which you pay for. Or if you plan to use PSN, you pay quite a heavy amount. On the PC ... the games are free and so is the online gameplay.The only problem is that still a lot more people are going to be playing COD4 on Live compared to the PC version.



I dont see any online player moving to conosle onlyusuf ?



If the console online gaming had made the PC "die"it's not JUST the success of things like Live ahsan, what the hell have we been talking about in this topic all this time lol.

seriously ahsan, do you even read anyone else's posts or just post your bit and leave it at that ?

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 07:30 PM
The only problem is that still a lot more people are going to be playing COD4 on Live compared to the PC version.

Certainly not in Pakistan. 10 clans ... loads of other players ... multiple servers ... WCG Asia Nationals in Pakistan on CoD4 PC ... ! *ill be playing too*. And im pretty sure not overall in the world either. There are a hell of a lot of CoD4 servers out there ... with definately a lot of players active at a given time.

Showing me sale numbers in some statistics that doenst take into consideration piracy which is a huge factor effecting the result by almost 60-70% isnt going to make me believe such foolishness!


it's not JUST the success of things like Live ahsan, what the hell have we been talking about in this topic all this time lol.

Already told about the other points that exclusives are being traded on both sides, PC still has its exclusives ... obviously unheard of to you because you have never even bothered to look into a PC gaming side. What else is there ? The only point valid here would be timed-exclusives ... which certainly isnt going to kill a platform ! A disadvantage yes (as I said myself in the podcast) ... something to make PC gaming die ... no.

What makes me wonder is why when we discuss PC Gaming dying ... the only arguements that come up are direct comparisions with the consoles. Is this an ehsas-e-kamtari that you feel towards another platform ? Even when the PS3 was mentioned here ... you started bashing it.

Chandoo
03-08-09, 07:45 PM
What makes me wonder is why when we discuss PC Gaming dying ... the only arguements that come up are direct comparisions with the consoles.what else are we going to compare it with ? Microwave ovens ?

jesus christ ahsan :lol:

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 09:51 PM
what else are we going to compare it with ? Microwave ovens ?

jesus christ ahsan

This isnt a comparision ... its discussing PC gaming. Duh!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 09:56 PM
we're discussing why the state of PC gaming is so bad, take a shot genius, why DO you think that's so ? where are all the game makers who used to make PC-only games turning to ? what's getting most of the games these days ?

that's right, it's consoles. Now you feel stupid, don't you ? :p

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 10:09 PM
Chor bhai ... jab bhet kar aisee batain ho kay "You dont have to install to play" .. "and its hassle free" ... you're definately comparing.

Installing games and cracking them have been a part of PC gaming since forever and consoles have been direct playing games since forever as well. Apni ek do batain pakar kar na bheto poori batain dheko.

You dont even HAVE a PC so I guess you're opinion on this aint even valid since you've played nothing on the PC. Only people who have can tell you that, and those who have consoles AND PCs can tell better (Necro, Nomad, Shyber, hasanJ)

Shyber
03-08-09, 10:52 PM
What are you gonna measure PC gaming against...Goddammit guys I've discussed the online part already and don't make me re-quote things I've already stated. I'd recommend reading all my posts on this topic completely before bringing anything to surface.

Ahsan and hasan, now we're going to talk about cost of online gaming? Really? When all listed "advantages" of online PC game got exhausted, the "Free" point came in? That's all there is to it then?

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 10:58 PM
When all listed "advantages" of online PC game got exhausted, the "Free" point came in? That's all there is to it then?

Like sitting on a couch removes teh advantage of own personal dedicated servers in your country with very low pings ? Or custom and free user maps for just abuot everygame ? Or mods which change the game altogether ... or game play restriction mods etc. ?

So we have the following advantages.

- Better pings on dedicated servers for the top games ... like CoD4 which supposed to have the most players on consoles online.
- Custom maps, for online gamers maps from CS, Mohaa and older CoD are a real treat! Dust2 in CoD4 is l33t!
- Mods changing the game itself ... or the gameplay.
- Free ... totally free!
- Patches fixing bugs/glitches and doing updates as people want them. (remember you talking about taking advantage of glitches in game?)
- 3rd Party Anti-cheat software kicking out cheaters ... (remember USUF talking about cheaters ?)

Chandoo
03-08-09, 11:06 PM
do any of those things help the state of PC gaming ahsan ? does the ability to make mods magically makes companies like remedy make games for the PC now ? or companies like crytek stay PC only ? are free cracked PC servers suddenly making people abandon services like Live or PSN ? those services are booming like crazy now actually ..

you're not talking about why the state of PC gaming is so bad or why it isn't, you've been talking about mods and similar bullshit since your first post in the topic, like a one trick pony really ..

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:13 PM
own personal dedicated servers wiht very low LAN like pings ?


Wiki the term "P2P" networking. That's the network structure used for online console gaming mostly. Oh I'd argue, but first you need to have a go at console online gaming yourself. You think I, with considerably PC online gaming experience, wouldn't realize that?
The frame data update rates are tweaked and tuned in a proper manner, there's lag balancing and there are algos put in action there that totally negate the effect of lag.




Or custom and free user maps for just abuot everygame ?


Since when did user created maps have been able to match the quality and balance of pro designed maps? They're good for the lulz but everyone prefers serious gaming on pro maps. Besides, wiki "Halo forge" as well. It's the start, eventually it'd be mainstream. I mean, the whole new "Play, Create Share" thing that Sony is pushing with LBP and eventually Modnation racers, online gaming and user created content is truly being pushed to the next level.



Or mods which change the game altogether ... or game play restriction mods etc. ?

Mods are overall an advantage on PC gaming. I think you might've noticed me saying that on QUITE a number of occassions.


How about you produce an analysis of how many studios focused on PC gaming only are diverging from that trend. Why do you think that's happening? How long do you think that's gonna continue? Will PC only get the "leftovers" ?

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 11:21 PM
Considering the growth of CoD4 online PC gamers in Pakistan ... the presence of new servers for these games (not just CS, games like CoD4 etc) from Wateen, LinkDotNet, MBL and PTCL ... Djuice gaming tournament and WCG Asia 2009 in Pakistan ... I guess its probably doing something in the online regard for sure.

And well the state of PC gaming certainly kept Blizzard on the PC bandwagon for Starcraft and Diablo, and also made the folks making FFXIV, RE5, SFIV and others come to the PC. And isnt stopping games like Mafia II or CoD MW2 from coming on the PC.

A negative perception will never make you see all the stuff thats on PCs only. You mentioned Tales of Vesperia ... theres one RPG on the PC too ... Drakensang ... ofcourse you wont know about it ... because you're never going to even bother with PC games. I named you quite a handful of titles last night ... only to get a "Ive never heard of them" ... well ... you wont obviously, they are exclusives!

Chandoo
03-08-09, 11:34 PM
Considering the growth of CoD4 online PC gamers in Pakistan ... the presence of new servers for these games (not just CS, games like CoD4 etc) from Wateen, LinkDotNet, MBL and PTCL ... Djuice gaming tournament and WCG Asia 2009 in Pakistan ... I guess its probably doing something in the online regard for sure.what WCG Asia in Pakistan are you talking about here ? i'm googling but not getting anything related to Pakistan there ..

also, whoop de doo that services are now opening servers for two year old games, mighty fine achievement. XBL and PSN are closed circuits so obviously you won't see wateen opening a Live channel lol, but things like the 13 million unique ID number speaks something, and that too is only for one console platform. Where as COD4 has reportedly had over 4 million units sold on the PS3 as well, so that's 4 million guaranteed legit buyers, and not pirates right there. One/Third of all of WoW's population.



And well the state of PC gaming certainly kept Blizzard on the PC bandwagon for Starcraft and Diablo, and also made the folks making FFXIV, RE5, SFIV and others come to the PC. And isnt stopping games like Mafia II or CoD MW2 from coming on the PC.Has already been said many times over that Blizzard is the only worth while PC company left, other than that all the names you've mentioned are either really late releases on PC, which some people don't mind, but are actually a pretty big deal for a person to decide the platform, and/or much more popularly anticipated on consoles.

hell, PC isn't even getting the MW2 special edition.



A negative perception will never make you see all the stuff thats on PCs only. You mentioned Tales of Vesperia ... theres one RPG on the PC too ... Drakensang ... ofcourse you wont know about it ... because you're never going to even bother with PC games. I named you quite a handful of titles last night ... only to get a "Ive never heard of them" ... well ... you wont obviously, they are exclusives!Only difference being, most of the games i'm talking about, aka the console RPG's, are what's a hit with most of the people, where as most of the PC only stuff you're mentioning is in-fact relegated to a very niche circle of people, hang around places like NeoGaf, the largest gaming forum in the world, and you'll see what games they talk about, and what games they don't yourself.

Ask a common person, would he rather play Drakensang ? or Final Fantasy XIII ? the answer will be obvious. Hell, ask a person if he'd rather play FFXIII or FFXIV making sure you mention that FFXIV is an mmorpg (a stale genre), and you'll get a clear answer there too.

You look at something like Crysis, that rose up the rank of PC-only games really high, everyone knows what a Crysis is, but i doubt hardly anyone knows what a drakensang is. So it's not correct when you assume us console owners don't know anything about "PC games".

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 11:36 PM
How about you produce an analysis of how many studios focused on PC gaming only are diverging from that trend.

And console only studios are suddenly taking an interest in the PC. Tit for tat! Who expected SFIV on the PC ? A Final Fantasy on the PC ? Or RE5 on the PC ? Yet its here! Its obvious that piracy issues are making devs go to the console side because they want cash. They arent abandoning the PC, they still make games for it ... not just it only.


Oh I'd argue, but first you need to have a go at console online gaming yourself. You think I, with considerably PC online gaming experience, wouldn't realize that?

I asked a fellow X360 gamer, Cold Fusion in this regard. He did say he had a choppier experience on CoD4 on X360 compared to CoD4 on the PC. And really fawad, totally negate the effect of lag ? Seriously ? Id like to quote some of the topics on Pakgamers that came up with pings + x360 here ... where people had lagginess etc due to bad pings.


Why do you think that's happening? How long do you think that's gonna continue? Will PC only get the "leftovers" ?

I wouldnt consider games like Mafia II, CoD MW2 and all the other list of delayed from 2009 to 2010 multiplats (PC+Console) leftovers! Nor starcraft ... nor CnC4 .. nor Diablo ...! Nor empire total war or stalker or all the RTS games. Leftovers ... really ?

Sire Ahsan
03-08-09, 11:40 PM
[So it's not correct when you assume us console owners don't know anything about "PC games".

Your ignorance of not even having heard of the Total War series for one is something that truly shows your ignorance!


what WCG Asia in Pakistan are you talking about here ? i'm googling but not getting anything related to Pakistan there ..

also, whoop de doo that services are now opening servers for two year old games, mighty fine achievement. XBL and PSN are closed circuits so obviously you won't see wateen opening a Live channel lol, but things like the 13 million unique ID number speaks something, and that too is only for one console platform.

Again with the comparision to a console when you specifically ask PC only !!! You asked if Online gaming points I gave is giving any rise to PC gaming ... well 10+ bloody dedicated servers certainly means its working. But oh no ... that doesnt matter to you.

And again your ignorance that you dont even know that some of those servers have existed since a long long time!

Its like viewing a glass half empty ... or half full. You prefer viewing half empty for the PC, and half full for your X360. So there is obviously no use argueing.

13 million unique ID when one person here has 12 ... unique. Really ?

Oh and ... WCG Asia ... mera match hoga dhekney ajana okay ?

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:47 PM
And console only studios are suddenly taking an interest in the PC. Tit for tat! Who expected SFIV on the PC ? A Final Fantasy on the PC ? Or RE5 on the PC ? Yet its here! Its obvious that piracy issues are making devs go to the console side because they want cash. They arent abandoning the PC, they still make games for it ... not just it only.


Not suddenly man. Street Fighter and Burnout are probably the only new franchises added to PC lineup, otherwise almost all PS/xbox REs were on PC, FFXIV is an mmorpg and the last FF mmorpg that came out, FFXI, was also on PC. Not to forget FFVII and FFVIII were released on PC too and MGS1 and MGS2 came to PC as well. So all this is old story. Though the delays to PC ports now are much more than what they were before.




I asked a fellow X360 gamer, Cold Fusion in this regard. He did say he had a choppier experience on CoD4 on X360 compared to CoD4 on the PC. And really fawad, totally negate the effect of lag ? Seriously ? Id like to quote some of the topics on Pakgamers that came up with pings + x360 here ... where people had lagginess etc due to bad pings.


Set up a P2P game with Pakistanis and it wouldn't be an issue. I've seen disastrous latency issues on even MBL servers but I know that's not a permanent thing so I wouldn't stoop to that level of comparison. Similarly the lags on consoles do occur but it's a matter of switching server or recreating a game that fixes it mostly.



I wouldnt consider games like Mafia II, CoD MW2 and all the other list of delayed from 2009 to 2010 multiplats (PC+Console) leftovers! Nor starcraft ... nor CnC4 .. nor Diablo ...! Nor empire total war or stalker or all the RTS games. Leftovers ... really ?

I actually asked "Will", the trend curve is on a fall where focus on PC as a lead development platform as shifted and is shifting. By left overs, I meant games that are tailored around console hardware and then ported to PC months later. Whatever happened to capitalizing on PC hardware?

There was a time when there was a distinction between console and PC games, with PC games being far more advanced than the consoles. The Half Lifes, the Far Cries, The Dooms and the Deus Exs, which normally got watered down late crappy ports months later on the consoles. Now? John Carmack is making a fkin previous gen game. <_<

Chandoo
03-08-09, 11:49 PM
13 million unique ID when one person here has 12 ... unique. Really ?

:lol: do you actually believe that ? you can't even have more than 3 trials, so what's the rest of the 9 ID's going for ?

even then COD4 has an EXP system, most people who are playing the game out of interest wouldn't be stupid enough to make new ID's to loose all of their earned score anyway.



Your ignorance of not even having heard of the Total War series for one is something that truly shows your ignorance!

Your ignorance of not realizing that if the series was in-fact as popular and awesome as you make it sound, it would have been a hit discussion item on world wide discussion forums, which it isn't, that truly shows your thick headedness.



I asked a fellow X360 gamer, Cold Fusion in this regard. He did say he had a choppier experience on CoD4 on X360 compared to CoD4 on the PC

I was told by a fellow PC gamer, Shyber, that PC gaming costs 1 lac rupees to stay up to date, so that means PC gaming is really expensive, and not worth the hassle when i can get great results out of a 15k console device.

huh ...

imagine that ;P



Again with the comparision !!! You asked if Online gaming points I gave is giving any rise to PC gaming ... well 10+ bloody dedicated servers certainly means its working. But oh no ... that doesnt matter to you.

I don't remember asking that lol, i asked if any of that actually made any improvements when it came to the state of PC gaming, are companies making press releases about how they're going to invest more in the PC platform because Wateen has 10 freaking cracked servers or a person named sir ahsan knows about mods ?

what ever happened to Alan Wake ? why isn't it coming to the mod-heaven anymore even though it was once a simultaneous launch ! why did it take street fighter so many months to release after the console version even though it was initially planned as a simultaneous launch on all three platforms ? didn't it realize the awesome of mods ?



And console only studios are suddenly taking an interest in the PC

no they're not :S capcom have never been a console ONLY studio, they've been porting games to the PC all last gen too ..


A Final Fantasy on the PC ?
final fantasy XI, mmorpg, just like FF14, already on PC.

this would have been more valid if FFXIII had been announced for the PC.


SFIV on the PC ? Or RE5 on the PC ?

releasing months upon months after their console counterparts, when anyone who wanted to had already played them, thus not contributing anything to improving the state of PC gaming.

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:50 PM
And, erh, Ahsan, go play Half Life series first. Really. Before trying to state who's worthy of being called a "gamer" and who's not. <_<

Necrokiller
03-08-09, 11:52 PM
now we're going to talk about cost of online gaming? Really? When all listed "advantages" of online PC game got exhausted, the "Free" point came in? That's all there is to it then?
Whoa whoa wait... everywhere I see the PS3 bashing starts just because X360 is pirate friendly and people can play butt loads of games for the cost of one on the PS3. I thought price was one of the major success of any console in Pakistan. Its all relevant.

I wouldn't say its doing wonders for the PC as far as devs focus is concerned. Since no one ever even thought about charging you for online play on the PC. I have never ever spent a dime on XBL when I can have online for free at PSN and the PC. (I don't even play on TF2/COD4 cracked servers coz I happen to have an original copy I scored off a great deal for both)

As for the mods vs pro maps, dev who can take advantage of it (with great editors) don't even need to make pro maps. Just go to the website 'Crymod'. Damn you'll be amazed to see the level of mods that have been created by users in every category possible. From full fledge single player maps with a storyline to MP levels, they even added their own voice acting man. That community is STILL thriving and you will never run out of stuff to play. And this is just Crysis. Have you ever checked out Garry's Mod or the awesome FakeFactory's HL2 mods? The super duper high res texture mods. Way too much stuff to try out. Its just sad that not many developers, even on the console, can take advantage of the power of mods in their games.

http://pub.tv2.no/multimedia/na/archive/00684/Half-Life-2-FakeFac_684462a.jpghttp://ui14.gamespot.com/653/ep2outland010001_2.jpghttp://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1816/ep1citadel000064ux0.jpghttp://img376.imageshack.us/img376/3329/ep1citadel000076bz4.jpghttp://img527.imageshack.us/img527/7526/d3breen010128sz7.jpghttp://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9051/hl2cm95pi4.jpgMost of these are not the finalized models...alpha release only

Shyber
03-08-09, 11:55 PM
Oh God....they made Alyx Vance look like a whore, excuse my tone. :(

See? Destroyed the soul of the character there. Better shaders, yeah. But destroyed the character...

Chandoo
03-08-09, 11:57 PM
And, erh, Ahsan, go play Half Life series first. Really. Before trying to state who's worthy of being called a "gamer" and who's not. <_<


wait .. what ?

ahsan still hasn't played half life 2 ? or even 1 ?

HOLY SHIT AHSAN LOL, not only do you suck at arguments, you're not a gamer at all lol, for all the ignorant talk, didn't realize you'd be THAT ignorant :P

@necro, mods destroy fond memories of classic games ? gotcha.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:00 AM
Oh God....they made Alyx Vance look like a whore, excuse my tone. :(

See? Destroyed the soul of the character there. Better shaders, yeah. But destroyed the character...

A better artist could've done better... but I wasnt trying to show how hot she is now or not :P You guys missed the point. That mod transform all levels as well... which do look way better than Alyx HAHA

Its what the mods CAN do... I wonder if you people know about the KZ2 mod a SINGLE USER is doing using the CryEngine..

http://www.blogcdn.com/playstation.joystiq.com/media/2009/02/killzonecrymod.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVTdPXO6vY

This is first video and SS after just several days of work... its not final yet I think.

Shyber
04-08-09, 12:03 AM
This can go on forever. I wanna be unbiased on this discussion because I got lotsa respect for PC gaming and at the same time I can't thrive without my consoles. But the thing what I find lacking here is lack of admittance of weaknesses and a proper honest discussion. Instead we got defense and offense in a sin wave which, though enjoyable, doesn't get us anywhere.

I mean, let's break it down to this:
> What consoles were. What console gaming was and how it has improved now and what has it gained and what has it lost.
> What PC was. How PC gaming was and how it hasn't improved anymore now. Gained nothing it didn't already had and now losing the major development focus of PC veteran studios like Crytek and id etc.

Shyber
04-08-09, 12:06 AM
That mod transform all levels as well... which do look way better than Alyx HAHA

I can never forgive them for messing up Alyx, one of my favorite female videogame characters ever. She only looks better if you're looking around for a heartless soulless whore. :crying:

The levels, yeah I've heard a lot about Source mods and I think it's one of the best, if not the best and most flexible game engines out there.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:08 AM
Check out the the post again.. I added something else.

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:09 AM
There will always be a cause unless there iz but one fool left to fight for it :8

can u count the amount of ppl who r PC Gamers?
a platform will die if it doesnt have user support i dont see it happening on PC
nVida/ATI and AMD/Intel r still making alot of bucks

now why wuld an everyday PC user shell out 20K for Graphics Card or 7k for high Performance DDR2 Rams?
or for a DDR3 Based Platform
if there r ppl supporting PC then it wont die /end thread

PS: Now enters Chandoo claiming OMG 20k for Graphics card when my console iz 16k
ZOMG 7k for Rams its eeeXpensive <_<

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:11 AM
now why wuld an everyday PC user shell out 20K for Graphics Card or 7k for high Performance DDR2 Rams?
or for a DDR3 Based Platform
if there r ppl supporting PC then it wont die /end thread

again, we're talking about PC GAMING, not PC USAGE IN GENERAL.

and i heard from this fellow user called Shyber, that PC gaming requires 1 lac rupees <_< . EFF THAT.

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:14 AM
again, we're talking about PC GAMING, not PC USAGE IN GENERAL.


<_<

i said

now why wuld an everyday PC user shell out 20K for Graphics Card or 7k for high Performance DDR2 Rams?
or for a DDR3 Based Platform
if there r ppl supporting PC then it wont die /end thread

i meant

ppl r shelling out for this level of Hardware
PC Gaming iz like a passion ^_^

Shyber
04-08-09, 12:19 AM
Check out the the post again.. I added something else.

Heh dude, if you're trying to impress me with mods then don't. I used to be a real sucker for these things when I had the time and vanity of my game changing abilities to my friends :P
I mean, if you need to use a mod to add weigh to your arguments, use the Black Mesa mod as an example. I've said this many times, mods are one of the key advantages of PC gaming and probably the only thing that can counter that on consoles is more games designed around the Play, Create and Share ideology.



and i heard from this fellow user called Shyber, that PC gaming requires 1 lac rupees <_< . EFF THAT.

OH God. I was trying to emulate an effin retard and being optimistic beyond any barrier of optimism in trying to make SENSE out of something as nonsense as a 1lac gaming PC in that statement.



PC Gaming iz like a passion http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/happy.gif

THIS. THIS is what defines PC gaming. I mean its something like that "Hey I got a Lambo Gallardo - hassle free racing!" and a grease monkey countering "My tuned Civic can own your ass" thing. I used to remember how tweaking every setting and getting every ounce of overclock from my system to get every extra frame in the latest game that I brought in. It was really fun to try and get the game running at the best possible configs and with all the cool third party additions and stuff. Back in the day of Brian Lara where I modified every team to match their real life perfection with edited commentary to as much as racing with a Titanic in High Stakes.

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk464/Shyber/Cookware641.jpg

Yes, that's a full scale Kitchen exhaust fan externally plugged into a 220V supply to cool my PC. And if you ran it in full overclocked mode forgetting to switch on the fan, you get this:

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/kk464/Shyber/Cookware64.jpg

Hahaha. Those were the days.

Thing is, PC gaming won't just die. I mean, giants like nVidia and Ati won't allow that. Only that they'll be ignored as the lead platform as consoles tend to get more and more capable.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:20 AM
@necro, mods destroy fond memories of classic games ? gotcha.
You called HL2 classic? Wow :):):)

and i heard from this fellow user called Shyber, that PC gaming requires 1 lac rupees <_< . EFF THAT. Chandoo you know what Shyber meant... stop with the ignorance ;)

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:20 AM
hmm, let's put things into prespective here ..

PC gaming is like an expensive whore who demands a lot of cash outright, but once you pay her a riidculously high amount, she's willing to do anything you ask her to.

360 gaming is like the easy to talk to whore who behaves really nice with her customers, and entertains them to a high degree, and doesn't charge much, only that she has a habit of getting strokes and DYING during sex every now and then.

PS3 gaming is a really expensive whore who not only charges upfront, but also charges for every different sexual position you try, she does free offer oral though, so it kind of works out too.

there.

better ?

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:22 AM
Heh dude, if you're trying to impress me with mods then don't. I used to be a real sucker for these things when I had the time and vanity of my game changing abilities to my friends :P
Im not saying they're doing wonders for PC gaming as far as devs focus is concerned. No way. But I thought you were all for appreciation <_<

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:24 AM
You called HL2 classic? Wow http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/smile.gifhttp://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/smile.gif

why ? Orange Box is a classic product afterall ;)

wink wink.

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:24 AM
PC gaming is like an expensive whore who demands a lot of cash outright, but once you pay her a high amount, she's willing to do anything you ask her to.

no no no
PC Gaming iz like a variable whore which depends on the cash u spend
from 5k to 100k u can get many different types so it all depends on wht u want and how much u willing to spend ^_^

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:24 AM
why ? Orange Box is a classic product afterall ;)
Isn't LTTP = phail as far as console gamers are concerned? :P

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:26 AM
Orange Box was the first time people got to play the complete half life 2 experience, doesn't seem like an LTTP if you ask me. Also, Portal ;)

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:27 AM
Exactly my point... PC gamers played it back in late 2004 (HL2). Hell, even we don't get games THAT late. Nevertheless Im glad console gamers got to enjoy the awesomeness that is the orange box.

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:29 AM
Exactly my point... I said having the complete HL2 experience in a single package for the first time doesn't sound like LTTP, and you're saying the exact opposite.

how's that the same point ? :S

Orange Box is probably one of the first biggest example of a PC-only company starting to focus on consoles as well, they brought all the new stuff and older stuff with updated tech all in a single package to it, and haven't looked back since.

Shyber
04-08-09, 12:30 AM
Orange Box is the best deal ever created in the videogaming industry. Orange box is also best on PC.

PS: you guys probably missed my edit here: http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/pakgamers-articles/34325-aurora-pc-gaming-dying-5.html#post434295

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:32 AM
Orange Box iz the only Legit Game i own :8

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:34 AM
@Chandoo, all im trying to say is, you played the game when anybody who cared for it had already done so (thats your argument for pretty much every late release of a multiplatform game).

Orangebox deserves to be played by everyone. Im glad it came out on consoles as well. You played through the first HL Chandoo? EPIC!!! Im sure your PC can run it.

Shyber
04-08-09, 12:36 AM
Damn you guys. Keeping me awake till 2 AM. <_<
I'm outta here. Waaaay past my bedtime.

BTW necro, do check the pics here http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/pakgamers-articles/34325-aurora-pc-gaming-dying-5.html#post434295
:D :D

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:36 AM
necrokiller @Chandoo, all im trying to say is, you played the game when anybody who cared for it had already done so (thats your argument for pretty much every late release of a multiplatform game).

actually i'd played the original half life 2 on my PC (which was somewhat new at that time and ran it at 800x600 :D) as well.

my point was that Orange Box was the first introduction of HL Episode 2, and with that and the previous games coming in a single package, it really doesn't feel like a late item, especially when it also introduces Team Fortress 2 and Portal for the first time.


(that and the original HL2 was also available on the Xbox 1, albeit a watered down version of it).

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:37 AM
Orangebox deserves to be played by everyone. Im glad it came out on consoles as well. You played through the first HL Chandoo? EPIC!!! Im sure your PC can run it.

he can always Upscale 800X600 to 1920X1080 :p

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:39 AM
he can always Upscale 800X600 to 1920X1080 :p

actually, orange box on the 360 scales to all the PC-resolutions if you're using the VGA cable, looks pretty fan-fucking-tastic at that. It's natively running at 720p, and can scale to 4 : 3, or even 5 : 4 to match your display.

really nice.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:40 AM
he can always Upscale 800X600 to 1920X1080 :p
Good one ..upscale (lmao)

Shyber what pics? I missed your point.

Edit: nevermind... got it.

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:41 AM
if street fighter IV taught us anything, it's that upscaled 1080p can look exactly the same as native 1080p on PC :p

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:43 AM
if street fighter IV taught us anything, it's that upscaled 1080p can look exactly the same as native 1080p on PC :p
Comparison fail. I even called that thread a comparison fail. You can't say a game like RE5 would look the same upscaled as SF4 does. If you knew how upscaling and native support works you wouldnt say that. Not this again Chandoo :(

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:44 AM
wait, so others can poke fun, but not me ? <_<

buzz killer..


You can't say a game like RE5 would look the same upscaled as SF4 doesbased on some of the buffer shots from that program thing, it doesn't really look all that different either ... chipmunk syndrome aside. Visually i mean. But like i said, that's how good capcom's tech is. The only 'visual' difference between DMC4 console and PC is that PC manages to throw out more enemies on screen, not much otherwise.

hasanJ
04-08-09, 12:49 AM
If you knew how upscaling and native support works you wouldnt say that. Not this again Chandoo http://www.pakgamers.com/forums/../images/smilies/sad.gif

if he knew tht we wuldnt even be here -.-

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:50 AM
wait, so others can poke fun, but not me ? <_<
buzz killer..
based on some of the buffer shots from that program thing, it doesn't really look all that different either ... chipmunk syndrome aside. Visually i mean.
Ignore I guess? ... we already went ape shit over it in that thread.

A game that was natively built for 720p, even upscaled, would look worse at 1080p. ANd its impossible for a console to upscale and play it natively at 1080p without taking a hit in performance. Thats just how games and hardware work.

I prefer to play console games at 720p to keep the IQ at its best. You can upscale it to 2560x1600 for that matter but the textures aren't that high res to begin with so everything would look fuzzy. Not in the case of a PC where you can atleast apply AF to make things look crisp and sharp. (SF4 is a weak comparison)

Chandoo
04-08-09, 12:54 AM
speaking of RE5, i came across something REALLY interesting today.

sorry ps3 owners, don't look in the spoiler tags.


So, before RE5's release there was a demo, and based on some really nicely detailed comparisons off the demo, it was determined that the 360 version was actually a fuck-ton more sharper, however capcom was quick to respond that it was a build difference.

after that i didn't pay much heed to it, seeing as how i haven't got access to a ps3 version myself, but today i found this, stunning comparison image, from the retail builds of the game.

S3:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/p021.jpg

360:
http://dot50cal.the-horror.com/x021.jpg



According to the person who did the comparison "Most of the textures on the PS3 version are half the 360 version's resolution.

you PC people should pray you get the 360 version's port :p.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 12:55 AM
speaking of RE5, i came across something REALLY interesting today.

sorry ps3 owners, don't look in the spoiler tags.
Images not working.

Edit: Now they do.

Definitely the 360 is better. For obvious difference, look at the badge on his right arm. But like I said...AF FTW! Im not the least bit concerned after I saw the quality in the benchmark. I have faith in Capcom.

Now take a look at 360 and PC:

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9451/residentevil5pc1.jpg
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/1066/residentevil5xbox3601.jpg

I can post even better comparison if I had proper X360 screenshots to compare with. This is taken off a website. I leave it upto you to decide which is PC and which is X360.

Chandoo
04-08-09, 01:03 AM
let me guess, the one running in 16 : 9 is the 360 and the one in 4 : 3 is the PC ;p

that's the only difference that i've across through that application thingie so far :p

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 01:07 AM
Hows this for 4:3 on the pc ;P

Pure AHA'someness:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/976/25203571.jpg

Chandoo
04-08-09, 01:11 AM
holy shit, does the PC version look THAT jagged or is it just the over-stretched perspective ? 0_0

my version of RE5 looks way better than that dude .. donotwant.gif

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 01:14 AM
holy shit, does the PC version look THAT jagged or is it just the over-stretched perspective ? 0_0
my version of RE5 looks way better than that dude .. donotwant.gif

Im so glad you're joining the PC gamers on the graphical fidelity bandwagon :lol:

Who knows how much AA the dude applied? And you'll start having trouble pissing before you see that res on a console :P

Thats stretched? Have you lost it Chandoo? You'll hate the game you love just coz its on teh PC? C'maaaaan

Chandoo
04-08-09, 01:16 AM
dude look at the effing jaggies lol, every enviromental texture is a jagged mess, my version of RE5 does NOT have those :p

i appreciate the multi-monitor setup (i know lulz), but still, if it makes the textures look that bad, not worth it.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 01:17 AM
I wish I has 3 monitors to crank up the settings to show you what it would look like... like I said the settings can be medium with 0xAA, 0XAF for all we know. But the point was to show the aspect ratio and the tremendous amount of the environment viewable at a time.

For now you can take a stab at the jagginess here, on my very own PC at 1080p :P

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8534/re5dx102009071822060987.jpg
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8391/re5dx102009071822050991.jpg

Chandoo
04-08-09, 01:35 AM
that's more like the RE5 i know.

closest similar screen i can find from the console (360) version.

http://l.yimg.com/jh/content/p/0/1252328/resident-evil-5-20081003100813752_screen001.jpg




not so different eh ? game looks effing awesome all round, like i said, testament to how awesome capcom's tech is.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 02:04 AM
Except that that level of AA is at 720p as opposed to 1080p. Not a valid comparison.

It kicks ass everywhere man.... I just prefer it on the PC. Agree on the Capcom's tech part.

Shyber will be mad tomorrow :)

Shyber
04-08-09, 08:44 AM
Damn, resolutions again? lemme guess what follows, FPSs! <_<
You guess are worse than a stuck script in IE6.0.

Anyways, can we resume from here:


I mean, let's break it down to this:
> What consoles were. What console gaming was and how it has improved now and what has it gained and what has it lost.
> What PC was. How PC gaming was and how it hasn't improved anymore now. Gained nothing it didn't already had and now losing the major development focus of PC veteran studios like Crytek and id etc.

mr brilliant
04-08-09, 09:21 AM
wait .. what ?

ahsan still hasn't played half life 2 ? or even 1 ?

HOLY SHIT AHSAN LOL, not only do you suck at arguments, you're not a gamer at all lol, for all the ignorant talk, didn't realize you'd be THAT ignorant :P

comes from a man who said world of warcraft is bullshit and it later turned out he even didnot play it.
or a man who lost a tekken3 challange after claiming he pwns every1 in that game.

whenever some1 is short on a decent thing to say he becomes personal.

Necrokiller
04-08-09, 09:34 AM
I mean, let's break it down to this:
> What consoles were. What console gaming was and how it has improved now and what has it gained and what has it lost.

> More than just gaming consoles. Perhaps Pakistanis don't see it that way. The multimedia capabilities challenge HTPCs in my opinion (still not quite there yet), esp for novice users (Media Portal is one of the best open source software I've used. Its on all platforms though, even PC and Linux). But you do always run into format support issues for movies.

Hardware is getting more complex, games are developed on a bigger scale, production values are sky rocketing, with the hardware in the right hand, games like Uncharted are as good as anything we have seen on PC in recent years. More genres being explored on the consoles that can match the quality of shooters on the PC. The biggest one being FPS (RTS as well).

Online community is growing day by day. Multiplayer was there before as well, but now its a requirement to elongate a games life span. Most games with a mediocre single-player do well if their MP is strong (Left 4 Dead).


> What PC was. How PC gaming was and how it hasn't improved anymore now. Gained nothing it didn't already had and now losing the major development focus of PC veteran studios like Crytek and id etc.
> PC...if it has lost anything, its the main focus in the gaming world. All features mentioned for consoles are available for the PC as well. Hell, for me the online is better. But better is subjective so I won't expand on that. I've said this over and over again but the added features the consoles has gained (mentioned above, over previous consoles, not the PC), has risen the bar for console gaming to a new level. Piracy was always there...and it didn't stop any dev to completely abandon PC gaming, they just broadened their audience by moving to consoles for obvious financial reasons. Its a matter of time when it starts showing its age when the PC gaming will pick up its pace again.Til then, enjoy the exclusives you can't avoid on the consoles, and I'd suggest anyone with a decent PC to keep it for multiplatform games and play them for free, unless its too hard for you to wait.

Nomad
04-08-09, 10:08 AM
Wiki the term "P2P" networking. That's the network structure used for online console gaming mostly. Oh I'd argue, but first you need to have a go at console online gaming yourself. You think I, with considerably PC online gaming experience, wouldn't realize that?
The frame data update rates are tweaked and tuned in a proper manner, there's lag balancing and there are algos put in action there that totally negate the effect of lag.


Set up a P2P game with Pakistanis and it wouldn't be an issue. I've seen disastrous latency issues on even MBL servers but I know that's not a permanent thing so I wouldn't stoop to that level of comparison. Similarly the lags on consoles do occur but it's a matter of switching server or recreating a game that fixes it mostly.
Have we been playing the same game? o_O

You can't be serious when you compare lag on Killzone 2 with lag on MBL COD4 servers. I used to get around 250 ping on MBL servers (about a year ago) and even then the lag was a LOT less than the lag on Killzone 2 at any given time (doesn't matter if you are hosting or any international server). Now I get a ping of around 50-60 on MBL. You can't seriously claim that P2P on PSN allows for similar experience.
Maybe you yourself don't get any lag as you are the host. But just take a look in the Killzone 2 Clan thread if you think there are no lag issues.

I know that the discussion has moved on and I'm not saying that online belongs on PC. I'm sure that in other countries with good connections it's not such an issue. It's just that what you said was incorrect.

Even in other online games on PSN, like Tekken DR, there is a LOT of lag. Tekken DR is actually almost unplayable due to it.

Sire Ahsan
04-08-09, 10:24 AM
... a whole new sea of posts.

Well ... the topic was "Is PC Gaming Dying"

Ive given the following arguements against it

- PC still has its bunch of exclusives (I named around 9-10, some of them series with 3-4 games), multiplatforms (originally intented for the PC) apart from a few are still there and happening for the PC ... all the multiplatform stuff thats been delayed to 2010 is still there for the PC. Delayed launches would be the only thing that has happened, but something like that isnt going to kill the PC.

- I still stand by my point that online gaming is still alive and going very very well on the PC, no matter what number you can quote from XBlive or PSN. Especially on a competition level the PC hails. Nomad just cleared up the "lag" point ... I did a lil search on PG and found threads with people getting 2-3 bars in CoD4 and not having the best of times. The dedicated servers on the PC anywhere and everywhere provides lag free and pretty darn good gaming for all. Mods, custom maps and 3rd party anti-cheats add to that experience.

- In Pakistan, the growth ive personally seen is the amount of people playing CoD4 online. From what used to be just 4-5 main clans with a bunch of non-clan folks ... its now more like 10 clans and a whooooole lota normal players. They must be people who've bought/upgraded PCs ... because CoD4 isnt exactly CS

- ATi and nVidia are still showing profits, still churning out new tech. Gaming accesory companies like Razer and Steelmate are still high and strong

- As for the game library part, its nothing knew that PC doesnt get some or most of the console stuff. ITs been like that since PS2. Does that mean the PC is dead ? Nope. Not at all!

- Oh and Fawad, done with HL2 :P


hmm, let's put things into prespective here ..

PC gaming is like an expensive whore who demands a lot of cash outright, but once you pay her a riidculously high amount, she's willing to do anything you ask her to.

360 gaming is like the easy to talk to whore who behaves really nice with her customers, and entertains them to a high degree, and doesn't charge much, only that she has a habit of getting strokes and DYING during sex every now and then.

PS3 gaming is a really expensive whore who not only charges upfront, but also charges for every different sexual position you try, she does free offer oral though, so it kind of works out too.

there.

better?

Probably my new sig :D :P

hasanJ
04-08-09, 02:28 PM
You can't be serious when you compare lag on Killzone 2 with lag on MBL COD4 servers.

blackbasara and Cerebral Tiger were also saying this on Chatbox a few dayz back
i asked was the lag because of low FPS?
they said it was Latency tht was getting them killed like when u shoot someone it takes noticeable time before he iz actually hit in game

thts not my opinion just stating wht KZ2 players said

SpEeDyZ
04-08-09, 04:25 PM
It isnt dying its dead .................................................. .... wrong title

Kane
04-08-09, 07:59 PM
It isnt dying its dead .................................................. .... wrong title
and how can u say that?

@issue maker OMG People have gone nutz these days!

CerebralTiger
04-08-09, 08:10 PM
This thread isn't ever going to derive a meaningful conclusion. I've been there a countless times with Nomad, with neither of us being able to convince the other regarding our point-of-view/perspective. Such is the Console/PC argument Life Cycle:



PC enthusiasts will continue to ridicule console gamers over superior hardware. "You're happy with a Vespa scooter because you've never had the luxury of trying out a custom built Yamaha".
Console fans continue to boast hassle-free gaming from their living rooms and mock PC gamers for the constant need to upgrade their hardware, in order to keep up with game requirements.
Repeat until another similar thread initializes



More than just gaming consoles. Perhaps Pakistanis don't see it that way. The multimedia capabilities challenge HTPCs in my opinion (still not quite there yet)

Well, yeah HTPCs definitely give you more media-centric options and support better DVD upscaling. You get support for every audio/video format known to man (including MKVs). However, nothing beats the PS3 when it comes to running Bluray movies at 24p cinema coversion playback res. on a competent HDTV.


All features mentioned for consoles are available for the PC as well. Hell, for me the online is better.

Do you get cross-game voice chat, game invites, and full-fledged party system support from your OS on the PC? You could argue that there's a workaround for some of those features, since PC software is highly flexible, and then there's Games for Windows as well. But such luxuries aren't available for every game. XBL is about setting a standard, and I believe it has achieved that, if not more.

Provided that a game's multiplayer component is server-based and not P2P, the online experience is better organized and more hassle-free on a console.


Its a matter of time when it starts showing its age when the PC gaming will pick up its pace again.Til then, enjoy the exclusives you can't avoid on the consoles, and I'd suggest anyone with a decent PC to keep it for multiplatform games and play them for free, unless its too hard for you to wait.

Dude, even in its last big 'hurray' years i.e. 2005/Early 2006, the PS2 saw the release of some of its best games. At the time, nothing on the PC came close to GOW2, RE4, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, and FF XII.

Now, I know you're going to talk about 'Half-Life 2'. And I agree, it truly was a revolutionary experience within its genre. And for that, I have nothing but respect for people like Gabe Newell (even though he disses the PS3 to suit his own purposes).

Then you're going to say 'Doom 3'. Visually, it was a masterpiece for its time. But how about the level design? CRAP! The game, overall, was pretty average. Carmack and his crew at ID sure know how to push the hardware to its limits and pump some startling visuals, but they falter when it comes to making a solid game.

And this brings me to my next point. What is 'Next-Gen'? Is it simply about how many more polys you can push, or how high the resolution and frame rate can be? Not in my book, no it isn't. Next-Gen is about providing a superior overall experience to the player by one means or another, irrespective of how technically competent the hardware is. Sure, if you're gonna want to provide a better experience, you WILL need better hardware at some point or the other. But with creative use of art, you can get some amazing results. Games like ICO, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami (IGN Game of the Year 2006) prove what I'm trying to say.

So it all boils down to this: PC gaming isn't where it used to be because the bulk of talented developers have hopped aboard the console bandwagon. There's BioWare, Valve, Infinity Ward, 2K Games, all of which are focusing on a console (the X360) as the lead platform for games development. Priorities are changing. Heck, Sony itself has some of the most talented people in the industry, in the form of Team ICO, Santa Monica studios, Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Guerrilla, Sucker Punch, Polyphony Digital, working under its wing.


You can't be serious when you compare lag on Killzone 2 with lag on MBL COD4 servers. I used to get around 250 ping on MBL servers (about a year ago) and even then the lag was a LOT less than the lag on Killzone 2 at any given time (doesn't matter if you are hosting or any international server).

Actually, Killzone 2's lag is a different story altogether. It's a known fact that the game's netcode is busted. Even one of GG's very own devs has admitted this on several occassions at NeoGAF. If you want to look at a true lag-free experience on the PS3, try out Resistance 2....60 players and no lag whatsoever!

Your comparison becomes more valid if you tally the pings with the console versions of COD4. Sadly, most of those 13 million COD4 players on Xbox Live are air headed hamburger kids who don't care much for the apparently minor latencies. There is absolutely no denying that when it comes to P2P, the host clearly has an advantage (bullet-lag in shooters) over its clients. Hence, competitive multiplayer simply can't be taken seriously on a P2P-based network. This blog article sums it up pretty well, if anyone's interested:

http://ituncovered.com/?p=65

Chandoo
04-08-09, 08:12 PM
@CT

http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/forums/a/ga/ul/713001450041/inlineimg/Y/orson_clapping.gif

Kane
04-08-09, 08:19 PM
[


Well, yeah HTPCs definitely give you more media-centric options and support better DVD upscaling. You get support for every audio/video format known to man (including MKVs). However, nothing beats the PS3 when it comes to running Bluray movies at 24p cinema coversion playback res. on a competent HDTV.



Do you get cross-game voice chat, game invites, and a full-fledged party system on the PC? You could argue that there's a workaround for some of those features, and then there's Games for Windows as well. But such luxuries aren't available for every game. XBL is about setting a standard, and I believe it has achieved that, if not more.


http://ituncovered.com/?p=65[/quote]

I completely agree with ur first point


But before saying ur seceond poin have u ever used Gamespy arcade!lol


(javascript: leoHighlightsIFrameClose();)

hasanJ
04-08-09, 08:24 PM
Steam Client by Valve :8
look into it

milkyway
04-08-09, 08:28 PM
apart from fps, yes pc gaming standard is declining.

if todays consoles had a mouse n keyboard option, pc game would be almost dead

I think superior hardware is a lame excuse to say PC is better than consoles. Whats the use of that hardware when no developer makes use of it? When no developer optimizes it?

Nomad
04-08-09, 08:47 PM
It isnt dying its dead .................................................. .... wrong title

Thanks for providing us with a perfect example of fanboyism <_<

Keep doing it if you want to become the first casualty of this thread.



This thread isn't ever going to lead to lead to a meaningful conclusion. I've been there countless times with Nomad, with neither of us being able to convince the other regarding our point-of-view/perspective.
I actually won every time :D You just don't accept it ;)


Do you get cross-game voice chat, game invites, and a full-fledged party system on the PC?
LOL. NEVER EVER start comparing such options between consoles and PC. Result will not be to your liking :P

LIVE and PSN are trying to achieve what PC has. They are not the trend setters who PC has to match. It's actually the other way round.



Provided that a game's multiplayer component is server-based and not P2P, the online experience is better organized and more hassle-free on a console.
LOL. You first talked about cross game voice chat and invites, which isn't available on PSN. And now you have excluded almost all of LIVE from good online category. What is good online service on consoles than? Wii online? :lol:



Dude, even in its last big 'hurray' years i.e. 2005/2006, the PS2 saw the release of some of its best games. At the time, nothing on the PC came close to GOW2, RE4, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, and FF XII.

Now, I know you're going to talk about 'Half-Life 2'. And I agree, it truly was a revolutionary experience for its time, and still is. And for that, I have nothing but respect for people like Gabe Newell (even though he disses the PS3 to suit his own purposes).

Then you're going to say 'Doom 3'. Visually, it was a masterpiece for its time. But how about the level design? CRAP! The game, overall, was pretty average. Carmack and his crew at ID sure know how to push the hardware to its limits, but they falter when it comes to making a solid game.
There is no doubt that the games you have mentioned were indeed great. But saying that there wasn't anything on PC which can come even close is not true. It indeed does depend on what type of games you like.
You have already mentioned Half Life 2. There were a few others which in my opinion were just as good. FarCry, FEAR, World of Warcraft, all were released in the same time period.

Sire Ahsan
04-08-09, 09:22 PM
At the time, nothing on the PC came close to GOW2, RE4, Shadow of the Colossus, Okami, and FF XII.

In that time .. 2005-2006, other than above mentioned

Elder Scrolls Oblivion (a one year timed exclusive for PC)
Battlefield 2
Age of Empires 3
Company Of Heroes
Civilization IV

For any PC gamer, AoE3 ... Civilization 4 and CoH is a big deal. Hell .. AoE 3 ... that was epic! Civilization IV is no little deal!

You might need to note that Resident Evil and Final Fantasy and such are mostly considered console games, even if they have some versions on the PC. Games like Civilization and Age of Empires are what PC gamers crave over, and are of a great repute overall ... just not in the console world, obviously.


Do you get cross-game voice chat, game invites, and full-fledged party system support from your OS on the PC? You could argue that there's a workaround for some of those features, since PC software is highly flexible, and then there's Games for Windows as well. But such luxuries aren't available for every game. XBL is about setting a standard, and I believe it has achieved that, if not more..

Cross game voice chat ? Really ? LOL! ... eveyr damn game has a voice chat option :S ... you can also TYPE out stuff ... two methods of comm.

I doubt you've ever played online on PCs ... apart from CS atleast. A person who doesnt know about voice chat ... about stuff like dedicated servers. You really dont know what you are talking about. Btw, khabi CS par ho ... press K ... voice chat. Duh! You can also type ... double advantage!

Party system to discuss strategy before entering (as I read about it just after a bit of google)??? Meh ... lulz. Since we have PCs ... we have tons of ways. More useful, like editing a map with exact points and move strategies, sending it to team mates ... for a strategy. Atleast thats what I used to do before CoD4 matches and oh boi were they USEFUL! And since you said OS and might bring that point up... I got all the software needed for that with Windows. If theres any other use for this party mode .. like talking to friends and all groups ... PCs have software that can do that and a lot more.

Like I said before ... not knowing any games on the PC, not knowing what online on the PC is about ... and thinking that everything on the console doesnt even exist on the PC and its games are "nothing" ... to those people PC gaming will obviously be dead. I may not have a console and hence I will not be saying much about consoles ... but atleast such stuff like "Do you guys have VOICE CHAT" ... or saying "Who cares" about some of the most epic titles on the PC like AoE3 or CoH etc are nothing but ignorance.

Bleh ... im outta here. Id like a discussion, but ... ignorance main kia faida. This aint a PC vs Consoles thing .. it was about PCs ... and now people who havent even played on the PC since god knows when are really going to know what they are talking about. I mean cmon ... VOICE CHAT IN GAME! ROTFLMAO!

Radical
04-08-09, 09:28 PM
Civilization also released on consoles..

Kane
04-08-09, 09:33 PM
Civilization also released on consoles..

what about WIC!

Radical
04-08-09, 09:42 PM
what is WIC? if its a mmo or rts you are asking the wrong guy (y)