FEZ Developer regretting not being on STEAM - Polytron says there's "no sense" in paying Microsoft "tens of thousands" for patches

[faraany3k]

My message to Phil Fish:

Your game sucks, because it requires tens and thousands of patches in the first place.

This is the real problem with gamers these days. They are willing to support there GIANT CORPORATION, but not a small indie developer (which produced a steller BTW) to help support there game so it plays good for all gamers.

This happened after the first patch so 'tens and thousands of patches' seems a little off. This is not the first developer who has voiced concerns. Super Meat Boy, Braid, Limbo and even Valve is against these certifications.

[NighteySenpai]

Cause shit sells on it, much more than PSN Minecraft Xbox 360 sells 3 million - GameSpot.com

The same Minecraft that sold twice the copies on PC? Yes, sure. If you look at the average number of profits for Indies then most of them producing exclusively for X360 are miserable. I remember there being a studio (Zeboyd is the name) that produced Chutulu saves the world and another title and guess what? They made the same amount on PC in 2 weeks compared to 1 whole year on the 360. Indie developers prefer PSN over live. Sony do better to promote Indie titles then MS does anyway.

And for the sake of it, bringing a household game (now) like Minecraft into such a discussion is pointless. There are and always will be exceptions.

That said, many games on Steam sell like hotcakes. True story.

[Chandoo]

The same Minecraft that sold twice the copies on PC?

yeah the same one that's also been out on PC for a whoooole lot longer now thumbsup.gif

Indies and XBL games are different thing, this topic is about an XBL game, not an Indie game, and XBL games (most of the good one's atleast) do end up selling near or over millions of copies, fez included, the only reason the creator is whining about the patches is because he's had to make so many cause of all the glitches. The price policy has been there day 1, if it was that much of an issue you'd see more prominent coverage rather than one or two isolated people commenting on it every few months.

Most of them are more than happy seemingly to fork over the money it costs to get a title update on xbox live, and once again this isn't about an indie game, for all we know the policies are completely different for XBL and Indie games, MS has given indie developers some of the best tools in the form of XNA development shit already.

Also, like this post too franny I dare you.

[Necrokiller]

^$40,000 is no small amount for patches, Indie devs or not. Its a shitty policy no matter how you spin it Chandoo

[Chandoo]

^ If your source for that 40k figure is tim schaefer's interview, then he mentions both consoles in that interview, not just M$ or $ony individually. So you can't just take my name there Though the lack of games like Minecraft and Fez on the PS3 shows which of the major consoles these guys would rather take their games too

also, repeating the point about XBL and Indies not being the same thing, therefore quiet probably not having the same ruleset either.

[NighteySenpai]

yeah the same one that's also been out on PC for a whoooole lot longer now thumbsup.gif

Indies and XBL games are different thing, this topic is about an XBL game, not an Indie game, and XBL games (most of the good one's atleast) do end up selling near or over millions of copies, fez included, the only reason the creator is whining about the patches is because he's had to make so many cause of all the glitches. The price policy has been there day 1, if it was that much of an issue you'd see more prominent coverage rather than one or two isolated people commenting on it every few months.

Most of them are more than happy seemingly to fork over the money it costs to get a title update on xbox live, and once again this isn't about an indie game, for all we know the policies are completely different for XBL and Indie games, MS has given indie developers some of the best tools in the form of XNA development shit already.

Also, like this post too franny I dare you.

Mate, last time I checked, Fez was still an indie game. I don't know how you classify indie games; the world does however acknowledge Fez as an indie title. Just because it was released on Arcade doesn't make it an AAA title or anything. Go visit TIGS and IG mate. Many games have been released on Arcade, it's just a matter of signing for exclusivity (limited time period) and if MS thinks your game is good enough.

Fez has glitches sure, however all I am saying is most indie games on Steam make more money than games on Arcade. Most indies acknowledge that. Getting featured on Steam > Getting featured on XBL Arcade. And mate, I speak as an Xbox owner.

Also, 40000 dollars for a patch is a bit atrocious, no? I mean you can distribute that same patch on steam and on PC for free and probably on the PSN at a much cheaper cost. And man, whenever you make a game, there are bound to be glitches especially if the game is complex. Fez is atleast not as simple as Ping Pong anyway. So you get the point. You have to release patches. Big game studios release patches too. It is not a rare sight.

By the way,

Zeboyd Games, who developed Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World for XBLIG, ported the games to Microsoft Windows about a year and a half later; within six days of their release on the Steam platform, the Windows-version sales, roughly $100,000, had surpassed the previous year-and-a-half sales from XBLIG

Turns out I gave you 8 more days. I guess this proves Steam is the place to be. In terms of reliabilty, easiness, cheap stuff, patches, development and all most everything. This does not however mean XBL is bad or anything, mind you. Just saying, it does not live upto Steam. Steam is atleast at the moment the hot new thing. It has been for some time and will be for a few years.

The XNA development stuff is purely subjective. I know many (indie) developers who prefer different game engines, some even prefer Unity, Unreal and what not.

P.S Tell me isn't 40000 a bit too much of money? I mean what if you make 100000 dollars, it's like you are giving away 40% of your money (Not even profit by the way) to fix some issues in the game. Also, dev kits cost alot of money too, and not everyone can afford them, especially not many indies.

[faraany3k]

Super Meat Boy - There next game Binding of the Isaac never came to consoles.
Braid - Developers next game is a PC exclusive
Monday Night Combat - One of the most played Indie developed XBL game turns to F2P model on STEAM

Plus the example NighteySenpai is quoting. This is the sad reality and there are tons of Indie that never come to 360. So making it sound like it is the best place for Indie games is ridiculous. Many developers just realize it a little to late and jump ship to other platforms the moment they realize that.

And as a gamer I dont know why you dont want a developer to support a game after launch. I wish you can experience the Valve games and there support for the PC gamers.

[CerebralTiger]

If you had played the game you wouldn't say that.

I have, as a matter of fact. Not much, I'll give you that, but just enough to know the gist of it.

The concept is novel, but it gets stale rather quickly.

This is the real problem with gamers these days. They are willing to support there GIANT CORPORATION, but not a small indie developer (which produced a steller BTW) to help support there game so it plays good for all gamers.

You do realize that giant corporation was the one that published/funded Fez in the first place.

This happened after the first patch so 'tens and thousands of patches' seems a little off.

That's incorrect. Fez has been patched a couple of times, and one of the patches actually introduced a game-breaking glitch instead of fixing one. Plus, the game barely made it through release certification because it was terribly bug-ridden.

There's no excuse for sloppy work, even if you're an indie developer.

[Pseudonym]

I have, as a matter of fact. Not much, I'll give you that, but just enough to know the gist of it.

The concept is novel, but it gets stale rather quickly.

If you lost interest then I guess the game failed.

But trust me the 'concept' is not what makes the game there are puzzle in Fez that will blow your mind *minner spoiler* I'm at 128.7% the game goes up to 400+%

[Chandoo]

P.S Tell me isn't 40000 a bit too much of money?

Sure it is, but can i ask why the cost is only being lumped with XBL titles ? the tim schaefer where necro picked up the number from (assuming) and you're rolling with mentions both services in the same sentences, not just XBL, also Fez's origins may have been Indie but the game's final iteration and release were anything but. So much So that the creator himself says that he paid them for the prime time spot.

Indies on the other hand, have more flexibility, they can change the prices of their own games (like steam sales) and for the third time I'm mentioning this, it's 99% likely the policies are NOT the same for them. They have a completely different certification system afterall.

Similar to how there's cases of indie games that didnt do so well doing extremely well on Steam, there's also cases like Minecraft that I quoted above, a "Indie Darling" going on to receive even more success and much quicker and generating a shit ton millions of revenue on the console platform.

also obligatory